I just took life for
I always took life for true
Welcome to Duality Check, the podcast where two brothers embark on a thrilling journey
through the realms of scientific inquiry, the enigmatic mysteries of the past, and the uncharted
territories of spirituality. Join us as we explore the wonders of our world and beyond, all while
embracing the roles of curious bystanders rather than experts. Together, we'll unravel the intricate
tapestry of existence, blending the dichotomies of knowledge and wonder. Get ready to question,
ponder, and delve into the dualities that shape our understanding of reality on Duality Check.
I'm Drew. And I'm Dean. Welcome back for another week. We're back to another Secret History
of the World episode. That's right. Um, dude. Did we talk about this on the show? I don't
remember. But I read an article about how AI detection works. Yeah. And apparently one of
the words AI excessively uses is the word delved. No way. And it's in our intro and I'm like,
shoot, should we? edit that a bit and I was like nah we proudly embrace our AI overlords
over here. Yeah I mean they've helped us a lot along our journey here. Pretty funny. That
is funny. I've actually heard it and when we were doing our AI episode I heard that I heard
Delve and a lot I heard a lot of others a few words that kind of synced up and I couldn't
tell if it was because it's kind of learned us from listening to us so much. And like,
because it's been, we've had to listen to a couple episodes, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's
interesting that just like humans, AI seems to like gravitate towards the use of certain
words, because I know humans are guilty of that. Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. You learn
a new word and you, you know, your friend learns a new word and they just, they're like constantly
like, like looking for a place to use it. Almost like, yeah, yeah. We're all guilty of that.
Everything is euphonious now.
So I've got a couple of articles that I read in that. 1440 email blasts. Oh, really? Cool.
You signed up for it? I did, yeah. So the first thing that I saw was the net neutrality is
being reinstated. I don't know. We've talked about that much. We have not. But what are
your thoughts on that? My understanding is that at. Net neutrality. So essentially, the issue
comes down to whether or not
ISPs can set like priority rates for certain people to access the internet, right? And you
would think, like, because if all you think of as consumers, you're like, well, I don't
want my ISP charging me extra for faster speeds or anything like that or for priority service.
But really what you need to do is take into account that it's not just individuals on the
internet, it's companies too. And so when someone like Netflix wants, uh, their servers to have
copies in all of the different ISP data centers so that their server is as close as possible
to your house to get you the best, fastest speeds. That also means that ISP can't charge Netflix
more for that priority service. So not having net neutrality. the what was if you remember
in the days like leading up to before it got repealed the scare stories that we were sold
on was that you would end up having to pay a lot more for internet service but in reality
that didn't technically happen slower speeds right yeah So a lot of the nightmare stories
didn't really materialize, but it did allow ISPs to charge companies. Yeah. So in this
proportionally, but what did, what did they, how did they cover it? So they basically were
just talking about, they were kind of, they were kind of neutral on like whether where
they stand on it, but, um, that There have since been allegations of broadband companies having
throttled video sites. Also, the Santa Clara County Fire Department, randomly. Oh, interesting.
But Verizon specifically for that one, I think they called it a customer service mistake.
It was just an anomaly that it happened to be the fire department that was, there was probably
some bot or some kind of program deciding or flagging it or whatever it might be.
Yeah, they really don't say much other than that it has been reinstated. But I just thought
that was interesting. So like the fact that they have that ability. Yeah. Means there's
going to be more mistakes like that. Yeah. They have the ability to throttle, meaning. based
on how good your whatever the broadband company might be and how much, you know, people, how
many of their people are properly changed or systems are properly trained to perfectly flag
things or. Yeah. Because part of the nightmare scenarios are things like companies making
sweetheart deals with ISPs in order to throttle, pay them to throttle their competition over
themselves and stuff like that. Yeah, but I feel like that would be the quickest way. And
obviously, it's already been reinstated. How many years was that? Like two years? No, it's
been a while. Has it been? I feel like it's only been like three or four years maybe, max.
Yeah, I don't recall. Hey, let's ask chat GPT. Yeah. You standing by? When was net neutrality
repealed in the United States? This is the wrong chat I asked it in. Hopefully it doesn't talk
about milkshakes.
Net neutrality was repealed in the United States on December 14th, 2017, when the Federal Communications
Commission, FCC, voted three to two in favor of reversing the Title II regulations. The
actual repeal went into effect on June 11th, 2018, marking the end of the net neutrality
rules that had been in place. 34th source, 36th source. Yeah, almost six years. Time is going
by way faster now. The last three years have felt like a year. It's going so fast. Yeah.
As you get older, the time flies faster. It's a, it's crazy how it happens like that. All
right. What else you got for us? Oh yeah. So, um, I had one more. Um, it was about. the Chinese
having fully mapped the moon. Oh. Oh, here it is. So they released the most detailed, China's
moon Atlas is the most detailed ever made. So they've got these really cool maps that I'll
send. You can find it in the article too, but it's in nature.com.
So it says, the Chinese Academy of Sciences has released the highest resolution geological
maps of the moon yet. The geologic atlas of the lunar globe, which took more than 100 researchers
over a decade to compile, reveals a total of 12,341 craters, 81 basins and 17 rock types.
along with other basic geological formation about the lunar surface or information, yeah
the maps were made at the unprecedented scale of 1 to 2.5 million. Whoa, look at this thing.
Yeah And further down they have so that's the geological one and they have the lithological
Lithologic map of the moon
Tectonics.
I looked at, I was looking at these a lot earlier when I saw this article. Dude, these are cool.
Yeah. We'll have these in the show notes and everything. Yeah. We'll link to this. It's
in nature, which is cool.
That's awesome. Did they talk about any new things about the moon that they learned through
this? No. It mostly just says that now that this information is out, people can start to
really do the research and look over them. Every question in geology starts with looking at
a geological map. says Ross Mitchell, a geophysicist at the CAS Institute of Geology and Geophysics
in Beijing. The new lunar atlas is really a resource for the whole world, he says. Yeah,
so now that we have this going to the moon, we can have a little bit more detail of where
we want to go, what we want to look at, stuff like that. The new moon took 100 research over
a decade to compile. It's interesting. I'm curious what's making those formations on the map.
I want to zoom in because it's got like a color code. Yeah. I want to find the high res version
of this. I'll try and link to it.
That's awesome. Yeah. And we got some correspondence too. We got some, we got a comment on our YouTube
channel. On our last episode, I believe. For the Flint-Dibble-Hancock debate. Right. It's
from Lester Brunt. How did you not get Flint's point about the hunter-gatherers during the
Ice Age? He is showing that we have found mountains of evidence for hunter-gatherers, but nothing
for lost civilization. How is that possible when advanced civilizations leave far more
traces than hunter-gatherers? Sure, we haven't searched everywhere, but where we do look we
find all kinds of stuff, from hunter-gatherers all the way back to the dinos and pre-dino
life. We find all that stuff wherever we look. and we look in many places, but somehow we
keep missing the evidence of the lost civilization. The scope of research into those times makes
it extremely unlikely that we wouldn't have found any evidence by now. If a biologist would
say, look here is a survey of a woodland area, look how many dead animals have been found.
Even rare ones like mountain lions. Look, we have records dating back to the late 19th century.
All they find is dead animals. We all know no Bigfoots. You wouldn't say, oh my God, nobody
is denying that there are animals in the woods, so why bring up that you have found all these
dead animals? The point is, we collect all of the evidence in that area and none of it shows
evidence of a lost civilization or Bigfoot, which would be extremely unlikely if there
was evidence for it.
Right. Okay. It's a, I mean, I don't know that we, I think what Graham was really trying to
say when it came to like a lost civilization, he was trying to put the point across that
what we would assume is evidence for a lost civilization because we are a lost, like we
are a civilization that like they're thinking of like a lost advanced civilization. And he
says advanced, but what he means is advanced in a different way. Right. Not a technological
star mapping and probably cognition. And like they had a more advanced understanding of like
human bodies or whatever you like. Well, he's, he's mostly talking about the, when you press
Graham from a scientific standpoint, he will back up. He will. Essentially only claim that
the level of technology he's claiming is that they essentially understood the The procession
they understood the heavenly bodies they understood, you know astronomy to a degree that we Couldn't
match until say the 18th 19th century, right? So that's what the 18th century, I think, is
what he specifically claims. So that's what he bases his civilization theory on, is that
they had that knowledge, at least. Well, that's as much as he will try and make a hard scientific
claim to scientists about. He does speculate more than that in his books. But what I would
say in response to this comment is, A, first off, I did miss that point when we were talking
about this. We covered Flint's point about that as if he was just trying to prove that hunter-gatherers
exist. You're right, the point was not that. The point was this, this point that you laid
out in the email or in the comment, which is that we do find lots of stuff from this time,
but what we find is evidence of hunter-gatherers. And so what I would say to that is, yes, but
there are problems with that. So, um, if you've been in the like alternate fields or read enough
alternate stuff, um, there's a lot of interesting work that gives a lot of specific examples
of how many times evidence that doesn't fit theories, evidence that sits outside of. acceptable
explanation usually gets shelved on a museum shelf somewhere in a basement where it'll never
be seen again. And that tends to be the way that evidence that is outside of a theory gets
handled. And I didn't come prepared with, you know, like evidence to back that up. But over
the course of this show, if you keep listening, we'll keep covering topics. that will continue
to make it more clear that is the case. So there's a number of books about giants and archaeological
evidence of giants. And they definitely spell out, you know, stuff going missing. There's
the longheads, which we do have in museums and you can see.
And there's different types of the long heads that you see. Like there's the type where,
cause the way they typically explain long heads is this practice known as skull binding, which
is done even I believe to this day in certain tribes. But there's a very different look.
to a skull that has had skull binding done to it versus these long head skulls, some of these
long head skulls that have been found that don't show the same sort of like scarring and damage
to a skull. So that assumes, that makes it seem like the people who are doing the binding are
trying to emulate something. Right, something that they've seen elsewhere. Yeah, or put a
lot of value on. The other thing I would point out is there's a really good book called The
Book of the Damned. The Brothers and the Servant have a great series on it and we'll link to
that. They have a recent episode on Giants. Yeah. Their newest one was on Giants. They
had Heather, the girl who does the... She's the... What's her name? Heather. Yeah, she
was the, um, the one who does the like crystal healing. She doesn't do the crystal healing,
but she does the, um, the Rishi or whatever. Yeah. I can't remember all the details of the
things you were saying. Reiki. That's it. Reiki. Yeah, not Rishi. She was on the giant episode?
No, no, no. But she was, that's her husband. Oh, I see. That was on the giant episode. The
guy that they referenced in that episode. Sweet. We'll check that out. I'll definitely check
it out. I haven't finished it either. Yeah. I've been going back through their back catalog
trying to catch up on everything. So I'm back in the 50s still. Yeah. I'll do that when I.
have time. I went through like all of the Y files in like like there's like certain channels
like brothers of serpents give me another one but they have a lot of freaking episodes mm-hmm
I haven't started that yet I've gotten to like probably the first 20 episodes yeah but then
I haven't yeah they've got almost 300 two-hour episodes yeah it's a lot of content for sure
I used to drive a lot for work so that would be easy to do yeah now I'm so close to home
and as soon as I get home and ready to be in a dad and getting
favorite thing to do on drives is listen to audiobooks and podcasts. So I have to make
time for it now too. And now I just need to go drive. Just go drive somewhere. But the
reason I brought out the book of the damned is the entire book is written. So what The
title the book of the damned is referring to is damned. What he's claiming is damned is
scientific finds. So it's an entire book of this guy who went through and found all of
these instances of weird scientific findings that don't fit our normal worldview. And he
catalogs all this evidence and puts it into one big book full of all of this evidence that
scientists have thrown away and shelved. And then they just move on doing further studies.
And so part of the response is, you know, how do scientists deal with anomalous data that
they find? When they find anomalous data... You know, there's obviously it's going to depend
on the person. It's going to depend on the scientists. It's going to depend on the funding sources
and what type of control they have and what type of oversight they have and all of this.
Right. But obviously, like independent archaeologists who doesn't have anyone controlling, you know,
his funding or anything, if they find something that's. that's weird, they're gonna be more
likely to publish it. And I think in general- Follow through with it, follow up with it.
Right, I agree with the take in general that there's not some big conspiracy amongst all
archeologists. Yeah, like they have a meeting every year or something about it. Yeah, no,
I don't- I think instead what happens is they go about their business of archeology and then
when something weird that doesn't fit the mold pops up, sometimes it can- that weird evidence
can get shelved as an anomaly. And rather than adjusting the theory to fit that anomaly, you
just kind of call it an anomaly and move on. And then no one ever even realizes that's a
data point that should be integrated at some point. Yeah, I mean, it does go to show that
there is, at some level, a... grooming of the newer generations never to even look at those
things and if they've already been discovered in a sense sure they might find more and It
might be new stuff coming out, but any of the stuff that's already been shelved It's already
it there's there's also this like stigma on it. So if somebody was to go and look and do
their own research on it, they just get shunned out of the community. Yeah, well, it's not
like every shelving it in and like, you know, it's benign. It's that they're shelving it
and assigning stigma. to anybody who includes it in something that might mess up the story.
Right. Or, or maybe the peer review process wants you to remove this anomalous data that
you can't prove anything about before you they'll publish your article. Right. And the thing
is, is like, it's not like new archeologists. through the process of becoming an archaeologist,
go back over every single find every single archaeologist ever in history has ever found.
It's not like they get toured through the museums of the world and get to go dig through their
basements and you know pull an old box off a shelf that no one labeled properly and look
into it and figure out what like this is not you know there are ways to hide or shelf information.
in such a way that minimal eyes are looking at it or minimal eyes had a chance to see it
before it got shelved. It's an inconvenient piece of evidence. So it's just easier to put
it on the shelf somewhere and forget about it. And there's been tons and tons and tons of
cases of people finding weird things. Yeah. And then someone from the Smithsonian showing
up and, you know, taking possession of it, and then it never being seen again. Yeah. And I
mean, the idea that we have looked everywhere is a strong point when it comes to, like, there
still have being a possibility of a lost civilization, right? Like the submergence of the quote unquote
Atlantis, right? Whether it's some mystifying place or just over time, it became mystifying
like to the hunter gatherer cultures that remember it or have been told about it. It could just
be a landmass where people, it was a hub. It was like an ancient Egypt or ancient Greece
where there was just a hub of activity. And there was a lot of trade. There was a lot of
commerce and people had the ability to travel the world on boats or whatever their mode of
travel was. The hardest thing to overcome with that is that it's underwater and it could be,
you know, sure there are places that look good for that, but you would still see traces in
other countries where the trade was happening. Right. So that's the hardest thing to reconcile
is like there not being like a large amount of evidence of it in these other pre-cultures.
But what I've been contemplating since we did that episode and stuff is... We just need to
know how long, right? We know humans have been, how long had it been since their demise, right?
So we know about the Younger Dryas, but there was two spikes of it, right? And there were
thousands of years apart. Right, there was the dramatic onset of the Younger Dryas and there
was the dramatic end of the Younger Dryas. And we know that humans, not that it matters specifically
for this, you know. what I'm talking about, but like we know humans are 400,000 plus probably
years old as far as our ancestry goes. So like how long was there like a golden period before
the Ice Age and then before the Younger Dryas? So, and how many times had that happened? How
many cycles? Like we still don't know everything that's happened in the history of the earth.
We're still finding out and things are changing. The ball is, you know, humans used to, we still
only think humans were 100,000, 200,000. Now we're up to 400,000 years old. So, and as far
as the civilization goes, like we know that over 100,000s of years, hundreds of thousands
of years, or even 20,000, 30,000 years. it could destroy everything that a civilization could
have, you know, their evidence of them being around. Right. Well, I guess what, and then
after their demise, like Graham Hancock talks about them settling amongst the hunter-gatherers,
how many generations of those hunter-gatherers had gone by after those people had come and
settled and then died and only their stories were lived? how many generations from then
would have gone by before agriculture finally took root and what they were talking about
finally took root. Maybe they just left them a book that they couldn't decipher. Maybe they
had a different language, right? So it's all just even Graham and Flint, it's all their
perception of history. It's not fact. It's not exactly what happened. It's just putting the
evidence that we have found into a story and then trying to convince, like telling people
that this is everything we know. It's just that the arrogance of the established, you know,
archaeologists and geologists and all these people, like they have a narrative. It's the
independent people like Graham and others that are free to speculate. And some people are
more outlandish or outside the bounds than others. But like Graham at least hones in on the scientific
stuff, even though that's probably the hardest battle to fight. Like the myth might be the
easiest thing to fight. because you can't be proved wrong. Right. But. But that's easy,
quote unquote, easy for archaeologists to deal with because they can just call it legends.
You know, like they can just say it's not true. It's just religious stuff. Which, you know,
I find a little bit lazy, especially, you know, now. you know, that we know that so many of
these world myths have so many things in common, like the flood myth, especially being so persistent
all over the entire world. Just- Almost every culture. Also the idea that there are some
sort of entities that interact with humanity that have- Some stage of their- More power
over the universe than us, you know? whether you call them gods or angels or jinn or, you
know, whatever, the Anunnaki, whatever you call them, like, they're... Everyone is pretty consistent
on those points. It's really... I think there is evidence, but I think it's just not the
type of evidence that an archaeologist is willing to, you know, entertain. But... would they
be more willing to entertain that if they were allowed to freely, like, because they're a
lot of their work is dependent on funding. Right. And that goes back to what we talked about
in the very first episode, right? Is the whole funding and publishing apparatus that science
has to go through. Holding even mainstream geologists and archaeologists. It's a way to keep renegades
in check while everyone else, you know, fights against a new idea until that idea finally
wins out through a clawing battle. Right. And, you know, like that's sold as like science
working. And to a certain degree, I understand that like not every single new crackpot theory
that should be fully fully. Yeah. It's not like someone comes up with some new crackpot theory
and all of a sudden like a giant chunk of scientific funding goes to it. Like that doesn't make
it any sense, but it also doesn't make any sense to not fund weird theories because time and
time again, over and over and over in history, it's always the weird renegade theories that
end up overturning the old established ones. And you never know where that's gonna come
from, so you can't plan for it, but you need to not be shooting all of those in the foot
by not funding stuff that is quote unquote unscientific or pseudoscientific. And not even just the
funding too, because if we're, like. It would be helpful if like what Graham has been enduring
since his Netflix series, if that stuff would stop. Right. Like the name calling, the trying
to cancel somebody be like, at least let's be human to human here. Like you're dealing with
another human, you're trying to smear them. Yes, you're attacking their work, but instead
of attacking their work, you're attacking the person And you're trying to label them and
that's just unproductive for everybody Like we saw in the debate. It was unproductive.
They kept going up at it, you know But bringing it back to the comment or like it's And building
off what you were saying. The thing is like if human civilization really does go back quite
far I mean We don't know how many times it's been wiped out. For all we know, the younger
Dryas was the only major reset we've gone through. And humans have had 300,000 years before that
of uninterrupted development. And so it's not so crazy to think maybe we did evolve. Maybe
we did develop technology. Maybe we went through our pollution and global warming phase. And
all of that information is so far back in the past where you wouldn't. Incredibly look for
it anyway, and if you did find that evidence your brain is somewhere totally different So
you're barking up the tree of totally different theories as to what causes these anomalies.
Yeah and then Later on they keep developing and they get to a point where they develop
technology That is actually in tune with the earth and maybe they're not polluting the earth
and maybe everything they build is really easy to be reclaimed by the earth so that it all
degrades you know. I mean we're getting more and more that way as we start to realize the
impact we're having on the earth more and more the stuff we make is designed to break down
easily and it will. Yeah and give us another 100, 200 even you know I say give us like another
300 years and this civilization You know, on our current trajectory, you know, no calamities,
you know, and it might look like something like that where we're building fully sustainable
housing and we're getting rid of all the old stuff and repurposing it into, you know, energy,
you know, instead of it being used for structural or whatever it might be. Right. Like, you can
even over enough time- You can see a hypothetical theory where like, or a hypothetical future
where, where- everything has gotten so in tune with the earth, so green, so biodegradable,
that eventually everything we build can be reclaimed by the earth. And then eventually, because
we've moved on in so many hundred years of past, there's a big project to go and take all the
stuff from humans in the past and clean that as well. Repurpose that and basically put it
back into its original form. Right. If it's possible. All I'm saying is it's it with hundreds
of thousands years of humans evolving before we had our shots. Yeah. It's just not inconceivable
that you wouldn't find much, but you, what you would find would be the stone structures. Um,
what you would find would be the things that are built that. will last for a long time.
Like the things we've built that you'll be able to find is Mount Rushmore, Hoover Dam, stuff
like that. And there, I think that's- Unless it was torn down. Those are essentially the
equivalents of the things that we're finding and having questions about. Right, with Gobekli
Tepe. Gobekli Tepe, and all the crazy stuff in South America, and the Bimini Road, and
Yonaguni, and all of these things. I mean, you give a couple hundred thousand years and Mount
Rushmore at some point will look like you would be able to tell it was a statue, but it won't
be totally clear. It'll just be- It'll be defaced enough and you'll see some smooth edges, some
lips maybe, or like a part of a lip or- At some point in the future, someone will have to write
a thesis on whether or not- Yeah. What we now call Mount Rushmore was a man-made thing. Right.
So. I think this has been that comment, and our commentary has been a perfect segue into
the beginning of our next part of Secret History of the World. So let's take a break. Cool.
And then come back and hop into it. Hop on some Secret History when we come back. Yeah. Heck
yeah. Be back in a bit. Adios.
finish this out though.
All right. So I wanted to do a quick beer review. Oh yeah, what are you drinking? This is Fall
River Brewing Company. I believe that's up north in like Humboldt area, Trinity area, something
like that. It's Numb and Nummer, a double hazy IPA. It is... Somewhere on here, 8.2%.
Father approved. That'll do. That'll do, pig. He gets it. So yeah, we were trying to remember
where we not that. I know which chapter we left off on, but what we were talking about in the
last one is like the. Chapter eight on the Sphinx and the time lock, it was like the story of
Orpheus. Mm-hmm. And he credited Orpheus for like inventing science and music and numbers
and math. Yep. So this is chapter nine, the Neolithic Alexander the Great. Noah and the
myth of Atlantis, Tibet, Rama's conquest of India, the yoga sutras of Pantanjali. And I'll
just read the intro here. If you have just a passing acquaintance with the myth of Atlantis,
you may well know, you may have been left with the impression that there is only one source
of this legend, Plato. The Platonic account goes like this. Egyptian priests told Solon,
a statesman and lawyer of the generation of Plato's great grandfather, about a great island
in the Atlantic. that had been destroyed some 9,000 years earlier. So in about 9,600 DC,
that's 11,600 years ago, basically. The civilization on this island had been founded by the god
Poseidon and peopled by the descendants of his coupling with a beautiful woman called Cleito.
Cleito, Cleito. As we saw in chapter five, this intervention by a fish god is a coded account
of evolution.
Interesting. So it's said that they're going to go into a bit of the Atlantis stuff.
It goes on. The island of Atlantis, the islands of Atlantis were ruled over by 10 kings, each
with his own kingdom, the nine others. being subservient to the ruler of the largest island.
The central temple dedicated to Poseidon had statues of gold, including one of the gods,
standing in a chariot pulled by six-winged horses and flanked by hundreds of Nereids riding dolphins.
Live bulls roamed freely around the forest of the columns in the temple. And every five or
six years, the kings who ruled the islands were left alone in the temple. to hunt these bulls
without weapons. They would capture one, lead it to the great column of Orocalcum, inscribed
with the laws of Atlantis, and there beheaded. Life on the islands of Atlantis were generally
idyllic. In fact, life was so good that eventually people could not bear it any longer, and began
to become restless, decadent, and corrupt. searching after novelty and power. So Zeus decided to
punish them. The islands were flooded until only one small islet remained, like a skeleton
sticking out of the sea. Then finally, a great earthquake engulfed all that was left in the
course of one day and one night.
So we were talking about the, you know, from the email we got or from the comment we got
about Atlantis or the possibility of a previous civilization. You can imagine a flood of an
island, it being sunk down basically below the sea, and then an earthquake enveloping it almost
like tectonic activity, right? It could be completely just gone, like not even on the surface of
like far enough, like have gone back and escape back into the mantle almost or into the um
I guess it's the mantle Like
it could just be have been It could be covered up by like the ocean sediment and stuff because
especially for miles right, right Could be the case, or it could be, I know you've seen the
Bright Insight videos with the theory that Atlantis was in Mauritania, the Eye of the Sahara. And
that's a pretty interesting theory. If you guys haven't checked it out, I'll leave a picture
of the eye of Sahara here. That would do a satellite image because you can see it from space. Yeah.
Or near Earth orbit. And it definitely looks like it. It was ocean covered in water because
there's salt flats. Yeah, they mine salt. and gold out there and it was supposed to be wealthy
and gold. That's true. And also, like, that sort of area of the Sahara, like, you can see
what looked like the evidence of a flood having gone over it. Or that it was a completely submerged
part of the ocean at one point, right? Right. And that place itself might have been. part
of an island chain. Right. Or at least on the edge of Africa, like more towards like the
coast or just off the coast, like a Catalina Island today. Yeah.
If Africa raised up. Yeah. Hmm. Except I think they know that sort of in that area, in that
time range is when Africa was like a jungle, like it was all forested. Was that all of North
Africa though? I don't think so. I think it was more of like the northern, northeast part,
like the whole Nile and Egypt and stuff. I don't know, I'm so far away from the mic. Yeah. We
are doing a podcast here. I'm like leaning back in comfy. You just chat. Mike is further and
further away from me.
Yeah. No, the Mortania stuff is, but even grant or even Randall doesn't think that is. Whereas
he thinks it's more in the Atlantic too, right? Yeah, so the official geologic explanation
for the Mauritania, I have the Sahara features that it was a collapsed volcanic dome, which
is why it has the concentric rings. Right. I don't know that explains all the salt necessarily.
But because it would still, I mean, I guess it could have been
a volcanic dome that then like ocean came over. Cause you know. If it crumbles, it would leave
like an impact crater and you could imagine like the ocean flooding inland and flooding
that area after. Yeah. I'm gonna have to adjust this. Ah, there we go. OCD getting me. It was
getting me, yeah. I fixed yours earlier. Yeah, I like the Mauritania theory. Randall favors
the Azores theory that the Azores is the likely place for Atlantis. That's that ridge along
the northern Atlantic, right? Yeah, so if you go
west of Europe, west of Britain or the Straits of Gibraltar, you keep going west. That's the,
uh, it's like Greenland. Yeah. It's like Greenland Iceland. And you can see like even on like
Google maps, like the, the body underground there. Right. Yeah. You can see it like it
was like, um, like, but it had plateaus too. It was like a large ridge. Yeah. But the whole
thing's underwater now. And, uh, tectonic fault line though. Uh, so according to randall his
theory about the azores because they know now that it was above water because they've They
found the evidence. Well, they found like plants and stuff that were yeah that are down in that
ground, um that only grew above ground at one point or whatever. Right. Or the types of rock
that formed are the types of rock that can only form in the air, not submerged, I believe,
was the other thing they found down there. But Randall talks about, shoot, now I'm for isostatic
depression. That's right. So it's like the idea of a, it's almost like a seesaw effect. So
or like your butt sitting in a chair is another way to use it. Like if you sit down on a cushion
chair. Memory foam. Like if you're thinking memory foam. Memory foam less so. Like something
with air. Oh, you're thinking of. Yeah, right, right. The act of your butt sitting on it,
you know, that creates that butt print. But it like pushes that air away and out and up.
Creates a bubble somewhere else. Where your butt is not. Right? And that is similar to
the idea if you look back in the ice just how much ice was sitting on the North Pole. Think
of that as the butt in the chair. And all that ice on the North Pole is a butt in the chair
at the top of the world, which is pushing out the cushion around it. And part of that would
be the Azores. And so that the isostatic. like that the weight of the ice up there caused
the crust to push up elsewhere. And that would bring something like the Azores above water.
And then when all that ice goes away, that can cause ice static depression. Yeah. And so the
idea, part of the issue with Atlantis for a long time was the idea of a sunken continent,
not being. known how it could happen. Yeah. But has there been much exploration other than
the radar and LIDAR and the geologic mapping of it? Of the Azores? Yeah. Have they gone
diving? I don't know the extent. I know the people that dive there. Do you know how deep
it is right now? It's like hundreds of feet. I don't. Ask Chet GBT. Let's see. OK. Maybe
he'll know.
We're talking about Atlantis and the idea that some people consider the Azores as a possible
location for Atlantis and we're talking about the geologic concept of isostatic depression
being responsible for when all the ice went away after the Ice Age causing the Azores to
sink. And so we're wondering what's the state of study on the Azores? What do we know about
them? I've heard that it's got a type of rock that can only form outside of water and that
they found evidence of plants that grew there at one time. And then do we know how deep the
Azores are right now? Should have asked for bullet points. It's all good. The Azores, a
group of volcanic islands in the Atlantic, are often connected to the myth of Atlantis, especially
due to their geographic location and unique geological features. The islands lie west of
the Strait of Gibraltar, directly facing the Atlantic Ocean, aligning with Plato's account
of Atlantis being beyond the Pillars of Hercules' 15th source. Geologically, the Azores are characterized
by their volcanic landscape, which includes peaks, craters, and underwater plateaus. This
matches descriptions by Plato of a volcanic Atlantis with high mountains, 15th live source.
However, when the Portuguese first arrived in the 15th century, the islands were uninhabited,
showing no signs of an advanced civilization like that described by Plato. Recent discoveries
have pointed to earlier human activities such as pyramid-like structures and possibly ancient
Carthaginian artifacts, but these are not conclusive evidence of Atlantis, 16th French Fakes source.
The underwater pyramid found near the Azores in 2013 has fueled further speculation. It's
a large, symmetrically aligned structure between the islands of Tercera and San Miguel. However,
the area has been underwater for about 20,000 years, predating known advanced human civilizations.
It's thought that this might be a natural geological feature rather than a man-made structure 17
source. Overall, While there's a lot of intriguing connections and discoveries, the evidence is
not definitive, and the scientific community remains skeptical about the Azores being the
site of Atlantis. The debate continues, driven by both new findings and ongoing speculation
about this legendary civilization.
So when he was saying 15th source, 16th source, 17th source, they're actually citing sources
within their response, which is cool. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, I was going to say click on it. I
didn't know about this underwater pyramid. I was going to say the underwater pyramid found
near the Azores. And that answers the question that I didn't ask, but I wanted to, is about
whether the islands were volcanic, and they are. And that makes sense for how they found
certain type of rock, because. One's volcanic, lava flows. It does one thing when it cools
in air and does another thing when it cools in water probably. Right, right. So. Well,
we don't have a picture of a pyramid or anything. 60 meters tall, according to this article.
But do you see, even chat GBT fell into this fallacy. It's the circular reasoning. Yeah.
because the area has been underwater for 20,000 years predating known advanced human civilization.
Because of that reason, it is thought that it is naturally formed, right? So you see how
the theory is leading the science. It's the narrative leading the, even the, the considering
of, of options of what we're allowed to consider as a fact. Well, you know what that tells me
is that that's all that it's being, it's being taught because chat GPT is going off of what's
modeled and what he's read, what it's read. So if it's read all of these scientific articles
and like was able to pull this information from those it's pulling the words from those articles
and in the tone and the, you know, so. that tells me that the majority of what's written
is written like that. Right. And so that's where that bias creeps in, right? And science is
the best human effort so far at looking at the world objectively, but it's still humans doing
science. It's still humans creating human organizations of humans to do the process of science. with
universities and journals. And so regardless of the fact that we do science with the scientific
theory, it's still subject to human bias. And this is that form of human bias. Just because
we have a narrative, a theoretical framework for what we think was human history and how
it played out, that theory, is now informing whether or not we even believe something that
we find is man-made or not, right? So your theory shouldn't be answering your scientific questions.
And the thing that they that it said too was the fact that we have found evidence of humans
having been there, but it was, um, what'd they say? He said the Carthaginians? Isn't that
what he said? Yeah. The possibly ancient Carthaginian artifacts. But these are not conclusive evidence
of Atlantis. I wonder what info we have of those artifacts. Because 20,000 years, right? Because
like I was talking about earlier, if there was a civilization that was around more than 20,000
years ago, which Graham does speculate being possible, That's not part of his argument when
he debates people like Flynn Dibble, but he speculates that probably more than that, probably
30,000 years ago, the civilization was started. And 20,000 years ago, there's 10,000 years
there or so, or maybe more or maybe less. I don't know. But they became advanced in a sense
of having the ability to maybe even use abilities that aren't known to us that we have access
to within our minds to... That's the technology is being able to use our mind to... And like
a lot of these accounts and we'll get back into secret history because a lot of this does talk
about the secret history as you know view on this. But... I don't know, 20,000 years ago
and then... That puts it squarely in the Ice Age when Atlantis should have existed. And
in that area, sure it was under ice, but the water... Like there might be areas, and if
it was an ancient civilization that was during the Ice Age in that area, I guess that's the
Azores specifically, right? That was probably under ice, right? Because I know most of Europe
was. Most of Europe was. It's just west of Europe. Well, northern Europe was. I don't know how
far south that would go. Anyway. I think the Mediterranean would have still been liquid
and the Azores is pretty close to... Yeah, because that's coming out of the Mediterranean, right?
Yeah.
Let's look it up. Maps. I can't spell. That's the Straits of Gibraltar. So yeah, it's that
ridge right there, the Angro. Where is it? This up here near UK? Well, that's what I was saying.
I know it's this. Yeah, it's right there. So yeah, it's more like smack dab and like. So
this would be ice free. Yeah, that's it. So this would all be ice free. But like you're
saying, the isostatic depression and it might be more severe along a fault line. like anywhere
where there's a fault line, that looks like a fault line to me. That sure does. Anyway,
the Azores. Azores, Mauritania, and that's. Look how far that goes down south. So imagine
that if that whole ridge south of where the line of ice was, was above water. At least
the peaks of it. And that's obviously more.
deep where it's all white there and like the main bulk of it but imagine there being like
a bunch of like dots dotted lines or islands yeah and that if you drew a circle you could
consider them a concentric ring because i think the glaciers came down definitely this far
like but look you got the whole western coast of the americas or the whole eastern coast
of america as i should say that are like right there, you got Africa, Europe, like all just
off the coast of that, maybe a few thousand miles or a thousand miles or so. Man, it would
be a perfect place for like a- Trade. For trade, right. And like there's- Communications between
the different lands. They're perfectly situated for communicating between the Eastern and Western
continents. And yeah. I mean, if they were like the main go-between between the Americas and
Europe and Africa back then, that would have made them incredibly wealthy. Yeah, and all
these stories of Egyptian artifacts being found in the Americas and like those stories of the
Grand Canyon. What was that? Oh, on Y files, like the idea of the Egyptian stuff being found
in the Grand Canyon. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we have to do a podcast on that. That was a good one.
But then right there, just southeast of the islands, Mauritania. Mm-hmm. Western coast
of right Africa and Jimmy pointed out himself that like he's not even saying the Azores wasn't
part of Atlantis It's just that the eye of the Sahara Let's looks more like the concentric
rings. It looks like the ringed city Yeah, like right under the name Mauritania over there
The reach reshot structure, that's not it Yeah, you're just super zoomed in.
You sure can see that from space. Yeah.
Alright, what else do we got? Let's continue on the...
So this is continuing on the Atlantis stuff.
which has been taken to mean that Plato simply made the whole thing up. However, a little
research shows that classical literature is packed with references to Atlantis. For example,
in the works of Proclus, sure I'm saying that wrong, Deoderus, Pliny and Strabo, Plutarch
and Pasidinus. They include many elements that are not in Plato and seem to come from earlier
sources, assuming that is that they haven't been made up to. Proclus says that 300 years
after Solon, Cran Tor was shown by the priest of Saece columns covered in the history of
Atlantis in hieroglyphic character. A near contemporary of Plato's known as Pseudo-Aristotle wrote
about a similar island paradise in the book of Marvelous Things Heard. The great historian
Marcellus, also a near contemporary of Plato's, is clearly relying on ancient sources when
he writes that in the outer ocean, the Atlantic, there are several small islands and three larger
ones, one of which was dedicated to Poseidon. This ties in with Plato's account in terms
of the number of kingdoms. A Greek historian of the fourth century BC, Theopompos of Chios
retells a story told 200 years before Plato by Midas of Phrygia that besides a well-known
portions of the world, Europe, Asia, Libya, or Africa. There in another, which is unknown
of incredible immensity where vast blooming metals and pastures feed herds of various huge
and mighty beasts and where the men are twice the height and lived to twice the age of men,
we have already mentioned the quotation Enoch in the myths of the legend of many cultures
around the world recorded the prevalence of giants before the great flood. Hmm. Yeah. Well,
if they're talking about land of meadows and giants, I mean, there's also the theory that
America was Atlantis. Right. And I think that's a pretty likely one as well, because a lot
of the giant stuff, there's a lot of giant stuff that's been found in America based on the different
giant books and stuff. Right. Are they big books? Are they just about giants? There's books,
yeah, just about the Giants. Right. But are they giant books, or are they? Ha ha ha! That
one took me a while. Ha ha ha! Like
how big? How much room do I need in my room for this? Ha ha ha! It's a two-person job to
turn a page. Ha ha ha! No, that's true though. I think there are some people who connect that
to northern, I guess, US or just Americas, right? Could be South America. Yeah. That's funny.
But as a kind of like a for the archaeological discoveries, like a key point is like the underwater
findings and artifacts like those off the coast of Mahalabalipuram support the hypothesis that
flood myths such as those involving Atlantis might be rooted in real events at the end of
the ice age. So Mahabalipuram, I think that's one that Graham covers too. Let's pull some
stuff up. Yeah, we'll be right back.
you
as he just da da. Mm-hmm.
Alright, we're back. I wrote that one after our breakup. Oh, did you? Well, produced it.
Writing is the right term because it's from a sample. But yeah, the jazz song that it sampled,
I kept taking the really aggressive and then the really calm pianos back and forth. And
that was like therapy out of the relationship for the ups and downs. Nice. Yeah. Yeah, that's
good that you poured that into that. It was a good that was a fun night. I stayed up super
late at the studio all alone. Yeah, sad little Dean, just making music all angry. Look what
it produced. Dad, dad, dad. I like that. Not you being sad, but, oh, that's OK. So. Yeah,
let's get back into this a bit. And we had kind of left off with that little bit, that key
point that I had pointed out. So it kind of continues. And hold on real quick, because
I need to turn on this light that I turned off for no reason. Ha ha ha. Got to be able to
read.
I didn't even... I was like, yeah, this light should be off. And then I come sit down, I
can't see shit.
So, as I was talking about before, the underwater archaeologists are today discovering in many
parts of the world the remains of a civilization which were covered by floods caused by the
melting of the ice at the end of the Ice Age. In April 2002, divers... Diverse stories told
by local fishermen were used to help locate the lost city of the seven pagodas off the
coast of Mahabalipuram in India. The temple-like structures that have been found are much grander
and more complex than we would expect for the end of the Ice Age, the Neolithic or New Stone
Age. Author and investigator Graham Hancock. who has been so much, who has done so much
to question academic assumptions about ancient history was quoted at the time as saying, I
have argued for many years that the world's flood myths deserve to be taken seriously,
a view that most Western academics reject. But here in Mahabalipuram, we have proved that
myths, right, and, myths, right, and the academics wrong. have proved them wrong. So. Yeah. I
mean, I don't know about the claim that it's proof yet. But because I'm sure if we dig into
it, archaeologists will have their story about it. It doesn't seem like there's going to be
a full proof either way. Yes, evidence is evidence. But how can you prove your story based on?
Yeah. And I do remember Graham talking about this site in Underworld, his book about all
the underwater archaeology or like diving him and his wife did on all these sites. But I
was always listening to that book to go to sleep to because for some reason that particular
book out of Graham Hancock's work, he like everything's really drawn out and slow and it just... puts
me right to sleep. You're just waiting for that next point that doesn't come for another few
paragraphs. Yeah. And it's such a long book. So he really like it's, it's part of it as
like a journal. It's in the middle. Uh, but It's kind of a journal of him and all of his
diving adventures, right? And so like he really like spends time building up his whole experience
to his finds. And so it's not all just like the meaty finds and theory. Yeah. You want
to, you want to hear the shit, the cool shit. Yeah. So like you'll pass out hearing him talk
about like building relationships with archeologists in the area and planning his dives and picking
the weather and, you know, Oh, cause he goes into real, much detail huh yeah it's like I
was saying it's kind of almost a journal of all of his dive times rather than like a succinct
edited down book of just the best bullet points of the underwater work but anyway It is a good
book. It's just also really good to fall asleep to. So then within that book, what is like,
do you remember what he was saying about Mahabalipuram at all? No, honestly, it's just the impressions
and like the name pops in my head. I was like, I've heard this falling asleep a number of
times. But anyway, I do know there's info about this in that book. So I want to comb that.
Go to your tab up there. I think we had the Mahabalipuram one. Yeah. So yeah, this is what
back out. I want to see where it's at in India. It's on the east coast of India. The east side
of the peninsula. Yeah. I don't know if they could. Does that consider it a peninsula? It's
got to be, right? It's huge, though. Yeah. It's got to be.
Now check how many miles it is from East to West. No. So, okay. It's in the, what's, what's
C is that?
Looks like, is this the province name? Is it Tamil Nadu? I was gonna say, cause it's off
the coast, like the Yeah, yeah. It's in the Bay of Bengal. Bay of Bengal, yeah.
Anyway. Look right there, you see that ridge right there on the coast. Right, right. That
whole ridge right there. I have it on satellite view on Google Maps, so you guys can all leave
an image of this area. But yeah, these continental shelves, it's a pretty. Yeah, that's what that
is. During the ice age, I think a lot of these continental shelves would have just been above
water. Not all of them, but. Large. Yeah, because the water rises in uniform. Right. Well, that
whole idea of the isostatic depression and everything. Exactly. The isostatic depression means that...
Some areas are going to be more vulnerable to that kind of action. So some areas will subside
more, some will be less, but... Right. There will be rises and... It'll be like a moving...
Earth will move. It's not like a fluid or like a rigid, like this happened, now this immediately.
Right. Perfect. Or have you ever played with one of those plastic balls that's full of water,
the squeezy balls? Yep. Yeah, the stress balls. Yeah, the stress ones and you can like squeeze
them and it'll pop out between your fingers. You know, it's that's perfect It's that depression.
Yeah, I mean obviously that's an extreme example, but yeah Same idea if you do it less, right?
Don't pop it out through your fingers Just do a little bit less and you'll see the idea of
like, you know, you're pushing this and
yeah, right, right All right my body So None of the scholars dispute that some of these
accounts from older cultures provided source material for the biblical story. Elements familiar
to us from the biblical account, such as the Ark, the Doves and the Olive Branch, appeared
in the earlier Sumerian account, where Noah is called Zeosudra. He appears too in the Mesopotamian
account, where he is called Astra hasis and in the Babylonian account, which names him,
uh, upnapishtim weaving these different versions together creates an amplified version of the
biblical story. One day Noah was standing in a read of a reed hut when he heard a voice
coming through the wall and he was warned of a rainstorm that would wipe out mankind. Tear
down your reed hut and build a boat. He was told Noah. and his family set about building
a great vessel made out of reeds, finally, dabbing it with bitumen in order to make it watertight.
So, you know, we all know the story and then Noah opened a window and light fell on his
face. The world was silent because all of humanity had been returned to clay. you know, all of
the people who weren't on the vessel. Right. I love the... the re-approaching the story
of Noah's Ark with this new, like, lens to look through. And I wonder if the right approach
is to consider all of the different Noah's Ark variations as... separate details that branched
off from the same story or if some of them are Talking about different like where there are
multiple arcs is essentially what I'm getting at, right? Right And do these different cultures
are they recalling the survivors of their Noah's Ark tale, right? for their part of the world
I Would assume yes like that makes more sense so like Again, going back to this ancient civilization
that had knowledge of the astronomy and us on the universe, you see that it's possible that
if that's true and they had this knowledge, they may have even been able to track comments
and other- Right. And so they may have known that this was coming and prepared for it. And
prepared for it. And maybe even though- they were around, maybe their civilization they
came from is no longer. And whatever, like, we're talking, you know, within this account,
right, within the Secret History, like this idea is like, these people were quote unquote
gods, and that the people who are retelling and brought down these stories, They were primitive
and they were still about to go through the transformation that we are now the recipients
of, right? If they were a different iteration of humans that had been wiped out from a previous
calamity, but somehow survived, maybe they have the ability of, you know, elongated life like
has talked about in here, right? So maybe they're able to live a thousand years and maybe they,
you know, had some sort of way of living amongst the earth to hibernate in a sense or reincarnation
right which they're the they're the giants or they're the long heads yeah like they uh throughout
history and throughout they may have been a different variety not just human like they
may have been the gods right and the idea of the gods was in a lot of the accounts, a lot
of the people that they're interacting with are the are really the demigods in the most
recent accounts, because before the demigods was the gods. The demigods ruled after the
gods had moved on and been pushed past the moon, right, in this account, and in this idea. So
the gods are gone from the earth, and now you have demigods who are the spawn who were hidden
by these mothers around the cultures, these mother goddesses basically that hid their youngling
because the jealous uncle wanted their offspring to rule or some shit, you know. It's kind of
an interesting like archetype that is around the world at the same time with different tellings
and different stories of it. The other interesting thing is like some of the flood stories don't
use the device of an ark. Some of them go underground like the Zoroastrian tradition and the Turkish
tradition. We skipped over that a bit, but yeah, that's part of this. Where they have the shelters
underground. that we're finding under Turkey. Yep. What are those called? I forget. But.
I can't remember either. Those things are awesome. There's like whole cities that could like house
hundreds of thousands of people. Yeah, and they had different rooms. And there's multiple of
them in different cities. And then they found like big giant tunnels that connect different
cities to each other. Yep. What if those are the rings? What if those, you know, that's
Atlantis. What if Atlantis was like within the earth at one point? Like what if that was...
I was just thinking of that as like an alternate strategy to the Ark. True, true. And then there's
also like the, I don't know if there's any, you know, historical evidence of this, but
like the idea that maybe there was, like we had advanced to the point where we could leave
the earth and survive. What if it was like a multi-tiered approach? Right. Cause If you
think of something like this happening today, like let's say we had a century's notice that
the earth was going to come to some sort of calamity. Within a century, we could send a
good number of people off world. If we really dedicate our human resources to it, knowing
that we're going to die, we could get a number of people off this earth, but we couldn't get
all of us off. But then for the ones who are stuck here, you can imagine employing different
strategies for survival on Earth. So you can see some people going with a giant boat approach.
You can see others going with a giant underground city approach. Mm-hmm. That's interesting.
You could see some people just trying to move to certain areas that are naturally shielded
by mountain ranges or whatever. If we know this is coming, right? So if we're thinking of today,
if something was coming to hit the earth that would wipe out everybody had we done nothing
to prepare, would wipe out, you know, maybe there'd be a small group that... was able to,
you know, or already had shelter and just hunkered down or whatever. Anyway, we wouldn't be totally
extinct, but they would be wiped out all civilization. If we had foreknowledge of that, like a century,
like you had laid out, like, yeah, you would see the You see obviously the people who had
the technology or the money to just leave Earth immediately and create their own thing and
just survive it out there. And the people, based on where the asteroid or comet would hit...
You know, it might, you know, you evacuate that area as best you can get everybody out of the
blast zone, the initial impact area and based on where you people are centered, more people
there's high mountains, you can dig tunnels, you can build stuff that's going to survive
in the ground because all you're worried about is like. a blast or the fallout of the atmosphere
being clouded and there being no sun or whatever, right? And then the people on the boat would
survive because they're just worried about the water. So that makes sense. Yeah. And you could
see how multiple different branches of civilization would restart out of the aftermath of that.
And then how there would be a lot of commonalities that if you were clever enough you might be
able to trace back to the fact that we have a bunch of new civilizations all over the world
that you know started advancing again and Eventually when science and everything became advanced
again you try and piece back together Clues would be there that there was an advanced source
civilization And one of those clues would be measurement systems. Everything in the world
today is almost either metric or imperial. Almost everything's metric, except for us in America.
So if something came, wiped us out and then the new survivors evolved, likely they would
evolve all based off of metric system. And they may take on different numbers and units. over
time, but you would be able to find the root of their common source. of measurement system
of their common source of language, you would be able to tell that like most of the vocabulary,
the vocabulary of the world comes back to certain areas in certain times in a certain source
language. You know, you see what I'm saying? Like a lot of this is the type of evidence
that we're finding now. It's all like so circumstantial and indirect, but it's really like you have
to put it all together in a whole. Maybe that's the conspiracy mindedness of it all, but To
like the flint dibbles It's hard to like answer with any like smoking gun It's all about like
everything in totality as little bits of Evidence that work together. Yeah, and just saying that
we keep finding hunter-gatherers is not going to do anybody anything like you There are people
who have probably found things that go against the paradigm and have shelved it. And there's
probably gonna be people who try to do that in the future. And to people like Flynn Dibble,
the newer people in archeology and stuff, just be open-minded. Hopefully you get enough people
who are open-minded and you just stop doing what they ask you to do. Like, what are they
gonna do? Either that or they have no archeology done. Their ultimate goal is to not have any
done, and they can just paint the narrative on their own. But no, they like digging. All
right, sorry for everything. He's coming back to Flint Dibble right now. I mean, yeah. Well,
and honestly, that whole debate and then the follow-up. Yeah, it's all kind of relevant
to this first chapter. And I think we might only get maybe partly done with the next chapter.
We'll see. Um, but there's this part where they talk about, um, right here, I'm going to read
a bit and then can talk a bit more, maybe go to a break right after, I don't know. Um, we
can also see in that, in it a paradox that lies at the heart of the human condition. All love,
if it is true love, involves a letting go. With it, with his prowess, with a bow and his handsome
face, the blue eyed, oh wait, I skipped a bit. Eh, maybe I'll just go here. Rama is in many
ways like the heroes of Greek myths, such as Hercules, but in the story of Rama, there is,
as I say, something new. Hercules was required to choose between virtue and happiness, and
unsurprisingly, chose the former. Rama's story, on the other hand, contains an element of the
moral surprise. The readers of the story will probably agree with Sita, as she argues with
Rama. that it is only right and fitting that he now accept the crown he has been cheated
of since birth.
But then Rama surprisingly chooses, surprising choices, deciding not to take the ground that
is rightfully his, not to marry the woman he loves. These dilate the moral imagination and
quicken the moral intelligence. The story of Rama encourages us to see beyond the conventional,
to imagine ourselves into the mind of others, and also ultimately to think for ourselves.
Esoteric thinking has always sought to undermine and subvert conventional, habitual, mechanical
modes of thought. Later, we will see how storytellers, dramatists, and novelists steeped in esoteric
thought from Shakespeare and Cervantes to George Eliot and Tolstoy would quicken the moral imagination.
One of the distinguishing characteristics of the very greatest literature, if great art
and literature give a sense of patterns of laws operating beyond conventional thought. Great
esoteric art brings these laws near to the surface of consciousness. So the story of Rama also
brings us back to the notion that, um, according to the secret history of the cosmos has been
formed in order to create the condition to which people could experience free thought and free
will Rama. could have enforced what is good and right on his people by ruling them with
a rod of iron, but he let them decide for themselves. Rama is thus the archetype of the exiled or
secret king or secret philosopher who influences the course of history not from the throne,
but by mingling incognito among the people. Rama tried to help humans. to evolve freely.
And I skipped over like the whole kind of Rama story, but it's in the book. And I just wanted
to go to that quote because, and I'll switch it over to a different type of archetype that
some people might appreciate and some people might be annoyed. I don't know. But that it
kind of reminds me of Aragon from the Lord of the Rings series. And If you know the story
of Rama, That's the same archetype that you just mentioned. It's the same archetype. And
it's the same type of people that are steeped in esoteric. We've been referencing Lord of
the Rings in this book multiple times and how they talk about or how they are kind of steeped
in the idea that human history is- Yeah, Tolkien is one of those writers. But the archetype
of like Aragon and like the similarities of him and Rama is like, you know, he is the human
that, you know, that is meant to be the king, but is deciding to live in the shadows and
influence humans based on, you know, love and he falls in love with an elf and that's kind
of like similar to Rama being offered, you know, happiness, but that... the love of his life
would die immediately because, you know, he touched her or once he embraces her with love,
you know, she will die instantly, but he will be happy forever or whatever, but instead chooses
to allow her to live happily and he lives alone and in an anguish, you know, but they both
live. Right, right. And that's kind of how Aragon. was characterized in the books and in the movies.
And the movies not so much because they cut out a lot of his backstory and a lot of the
stuff he does, which I wanted to bring up to you because you're Lord of the Rings fan, right?
I mean, you're not like a... You like it though? Yeah, yeah. Do you watch the movies too? Or
do you... I've only seen the movies, yeah. They're doing and they're re-releasing them in theaters.
but with the extended version. So they're like four and a half hours. Oh, dang. In June, it's
like the eighth, ninth, and tenth, they're putting them in theaters again. And they're doing like
days, so like Friday, or Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, they're playing each of the trilogy.
Right, so they're playing the first one all day Friday, and it's like one all day Saturday,
and the other one all day Sunday. Yep, or I think it's Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, but
yeah. Gotcha. That would be fun. My buddy told me about that. I think that would be fun. I
have a wedding to go to on the first day, so I'd miss if I did do it. I could probably do
it Saturday. I believe those extended versions are already. They're available. So you could
just watch that one ahead of time. Get yourself back on it. Yeah. Huh. Yeah, but I want to
do the theater experience, because I don't even know if I saw those in theaters ever. Yeah,
I remember seeing them in theaters. They were good. I don't know if I did, though. Yeah.
Yeah. When did they come out? When was the first, when was those first three come out? It was
early 2000s I think. Yeah, I think I saw like two towers and like Return of the King maybe.
Yeah, one of them might have been as early as like 98 or something. I seem to remember them
coming out while I was in high school.
So 2002. Yeah. So yeah, 2001, 2002 and 2003. Boom.
You were just a wee lad. You would have been in elementary school. I was like at Emory's
age.
10, 12. Yeah, I think middle school. Yeah. I think I did see like the second, I think I
did see Two Towers and Return of the King in theaters, but I think I didn't see the first
one until it came out on, I think I saw it on VHS back then. I don't know, maybe it was disc,
probably was disc, but. But yeah, this archetype of the, what do you say, the secret king. Yeah.
Secret philosopher, the secret king. Secret philosopher. Trying to think of what other
cultural, it strikes a chord with me, like the describing of it. And I know of other examples,
but I can't pull one off the top of my head. Maybe we can come up with some while we take
a break. All right, let's do that. All right, cool. We will be back. BRB.
One, two, three. No, it's a little longer than that. Damn it. Here it comes. Yeah.
Welcome back.
We were trying to come up with more, and I think we came up with a couple. Yeah. I can only
think of Avatar the Last Airbender with Iroh. Zuko could be seen as the secret king. I think
Zuko might have a little bit stronger of a case. Yeah. But Iroh being the mentor. Yeah. could
also be seen as the secret king. Then we thought of the lion king. Who you thought of it? I
said Rafiki, kind of like an Iroh figure. But then you said it would actually be Simba. So
yeah, it's more of like there's always a mentor involved. Like even with Rama, I believe there
was, I don't know if I have to reference back to that. But let's continue. I have another
little snip. And I didn't owe it to me. I didn't. So there is a simple Kabbalistic saying, everything
you have seen, every flower, every bird, every rock will pass away and turn into dust, but
that you have seen them will not pass away. This is a saying that would have seemed sympathetic
to the Rishi's seated with the legs folded so that the soles of their feet turned upwards.
Everything or they had no desire no gravity the downward reductive pull of the material
world They headed instead for the spirit worlds
So like that initial quote like the idea that everything will pass away, but that you have
seen them will not Yeah, it was a cool quote and I is a really cool quote And that's kind
of the nature of the universe. Well, and that going back to what we've been talking about
mostly on this, on what we've been talking about recently about the Atlantis stuff and whatnot.
That's, you know, that's given you the, like, it's a, it's a good way to think about it.
Like everything there may have been crushed, but that they have seen them. So the stories,
like there's no, like, yes, there are dates, but we're talking about people older than play-doh
That are telling these stories that are passed down hundreds of years and then get to the
ears of play-doh Mm-hmm like It could have been much longer ago that these things happened
and that they have seen them Like in the quote did not die and they continued to pass on and
you know it continued to be changed through the cultural eyes of the people that it was
bestowed upon but inherently it had like a like a codex of information. Yeah, passed down.
And there is like the idea of agriculture, the idea of all these different structures that
are said to have been passed on. But based on the culture who's receiving it, it gets changed,
just like we know, you know, translations are changed. Modern day, like, even just translating
between two languages, you lose an effect of what's being said. And Like even what Flynn
Dibble was arguing in the videos he showed about the Mayan people in the Olmecs. And like they're
the researchers in those areas are saying like certain words were abbreviated. And then because
they're abbreviated, the people who came in, who spoke a different language, interpreted
them differently. And it changes the entire idea of the culture. Like a day of the day
of bread turns into the day of the day of the day of the raising of the flags turns into
the day of bread or the festival of bread. And then based on the they assign a certain value
to that and it you know, it takes on a whole different story than The day of the raising
of the flags like what does that mean in contrast to the day of or the festival bread, right?
Right, I think that's a totally different That's the whole like translation. Yeah. Yeah Where
does your whole adaptation of the thing? Yeah Who talked about the, was that one of Flint's
points? Yeah, it was one of his points. He had the two different people who talked about the
idea that things change based on who's conquering you and the stories that you pass on to them.
And it continues to be passed on because they see it as a cultural. point that they continue.
Sure, they conquered them, but they have this fascinating story that they tell. But we're
going to color it in our lens so that it sounds somewhat better for us. So if we're white people
conquering somebody else, they're going to color it to be like, oh, they saw their ancestors
or their conquerors or leaders as being like us.
Right, so I wanted to respond to the actual quote we were talking about. Yes. Which is
the, everything will pass away, but that you had seen it won't. Like that can be applied
in other ways too. Like the entirety of human culture, like is essentially a... aversion
of that, right? Like no individual human will stick around. We're all gone. We're all ephemeral.
We all have a certain clock that we expire by. But that way existed stays on in the memories
and your genetic sequence you pass down in whatever developments culturally you've provided back
into the culture, whether that's scientific or artistic. Um, and so like as humanity that
we have existed for a certain amount of time, like all of these cultures get wiped out, but
there are stories that pass down and the Noah's ark is kind of one of them. Like it's almost
like. some flood came and wiped everything out, but that they had seen it couldn't get wiped
out because you know it survives in all of these stories. But in general like... It's that knowledge,
it's that experience. That's that thing that's permanent. It's that pattern of information.
That's the thing that it's unique to you and your experience that you are having that can
never be taken from you. But all of it that you see around you is temporary. Absolutely.
If you want, I could continue here. Yeah. So it seeded with the lakes folded. I finished
with that. Um, the reductive pole of the material world, they headed instead for the spirit worlds,
they were able to see spiritual beings at work on the earth, how they help seed, they help
seed seeds to germinate in spring flowers to blossom in summer, treaps to bear the fruit
in the autumn, in autumn. and how seeds are preserved through winter by the same spiritual
beings. The Rishis experienced the ebb and flow of spiritual influence like a giant breath.
In ancient Indian civilizations was like the lowest realm of hell, was like the lowest realm
of heaven. Earlier, we talked about the way materialists misappropriate words and phrases
such as the meaning of life. using them in a secondary and slightly dishonest sense. The
same is true of the spiritual, often used by people to puff themselves as good hearted,
moral, and warm, and fuzzy, pseudo-mystical way. But what this really means is the ability
to see, hear, and communicate with the spirits, like the Indian adepts. So they immerse themselves
in the vegetable consciousness. in the physical process, waking, sleeping, breathing, digesting,
which we have seen are the gifts of the vegetable kingdom to the human body. By learning to control
the end, the end's vegetalis or esoteric body, they could control too, breathing, the rate
of the heart of the rate of digestion, even the heart rate and the flow of blood, leading
to amazing feats for which the Indian adepts are famous. the ability to stop the heart altogether
just by thinking about it, for example. Yeah. We've, I know we have scientific document evidence
of many of the monks being able to do incredible feats. Um, I don't know. I wonder what like
the latest is in that field, like how much has actually been documented, but I know. I mean,
there's plenty of stories of medicine, science and spirituality are rife with stories of,
you know, like half of medicine is the fact that like your body, your stress, your mental
state affects your health. There's placebo effect has to be tested around with every drug because
it is so strong and powerful. So we know that like your mind can create your health. I wonder
when you like talk about in a super disciplined way, if you meditate and learn to have access
to control over your rate of breath and your pulse and all of these things. Yeah. I wonder
what implications all that has for like anti-aging science and whatnot. Maybe it's not quite so
far fetched. that you could achieve some of these like mystical ages that people used to
be able to live. 150, 200 years. Yeah, like the Egyptians talk about in their king list
how some of their kings were hundreds of years old. The Bible has accounts of people who early
in the Bible lived hundreds of years. That like there's stories all over the world of people
living in crazy ages. Yeah, I mean these are pretty well known and historically documented.
Sure, they're all stories, but yeah, like, in the fact that they're so widespread amongst
the entire population and different cultures all over the world. Like, and this is what
it was talking about earlier about. Or that was assumed by Graham
civilizations, they had an internal technology that they were able to affect their body in
such a way. Their consciousness had been tuned in such a way that their physical bodies was
more of a necessity for the consciousness, but that they focused more on the consciousness
aspect of themselves. Right. That they came from like quote-unquote in here like the vegetable
body and where the consciousness was less um individualistic And because they didn't have
free thought they had they were a part of this whole system. They were you know The vegetable
body was at least like it was you know, just like trees and plants are today like They're
all part of a network that uses the earth's resources to survive, you know, but no, I just
think that it's interesting, like the separation or like the amount of congruency around the
world with these different tellings of ancient times. Yeah. I just don't know how far-fetched
it is. And it doesn't, it strikes me like on the surface, easy to call all far-fetched,
but like, like I said, we see people do incredible things and we do have, like we know people
can slow their rate of breathing. We know people can like affect their body with their mind.
So like, what are the limits of that? We definitely don't know what the limits of that are. That's
not something our science has fully proved out. I mean, we talked about this, I think, on one
of the first episodes, which was the idea of records being broken and stuff. Yeah, I was
just going there. Yeah. Yeah, in my head, I was just going there. Yeah. Once the record
is set, people now know. I have something to attain to. Yeah. I think we talked about that
in the consciousness episode. Right. Like people thought no one would ever beat, what, a four
minute mile. And then it was done and then multiple people started breaking that record because
they knew it was possible. Right. And we don't know what the limits to all this are. Right.
Like the focused mind in specific focus has been documented. But the larger focus. of the
brain's abilities has not been studied. You can pinpoint people are doing this to focus
their minds on a specific task, or this is happening when they do that and they're in their little
flow. Yeah. Or like, so I've been reading this book about reincarnation in prep for our next
episode. And what if, I mean, there are already cultures today that believe in it. and there
are religious beliefs already surrounding reincarnation. But if reincarnation is a fact, if we do have
sort of a spirit body, if we have something that goes on after death and then you die and
you're reborn, imagine a culture that has that down to a science and you can identify who
you used to be. and like essentially like re-assimilate your last life into your current ones that
you are essentially growing wiser with each life you live. Consciously, instead of like
in some kind of like external world. Like for instance imagine in your past life you were
a scientist of some sort and you were studying whatever and then you die, you get reborn.
if you could somehow identify that as your past life, reincorporate all that knowledge, and
then keep building from there, because now you're essentially reconnected to that. Yeah. Like
how far could we get? And maybe that's the type of, when they say someone lived for 500 years,
maybe it's a chain of, you know, reincarnations kept together or something. Could be metaphorical
in that sort of way too. I was, uh, what that immediately brought to mind was the show we
went to last night. Me and Dean, um, our sister got us tickets to, um, Shane Moss, who's a
psychedelic comedian and, um, his new tour is a, um, visuals visualization comedic tour where
he's got. giant screen behind him and he's got somebody on his essentially live streaming
and DJing the video for him. It's actually sick. It was cool. He's incorporating like He's incorporating
AI-generated stuff. They have a bunch of artist networks that they worked with that have super
cool psychedelic art and art of all different sorts. And he utilizes AI, and he's been doing
that for the last 10 years. He said, or they were saying he's the early adopter of the AI
image generators. So he's able to pull up stuff on the fly. And create things. So there was
times where he was making fun of Shane. Like Shane would make a couple points in the videos,
clearly making fun of him behind it. It's super funny. Yeah. Yeah, it added a cool element
because Shane's also really funny in a lot of his stories and lots that he talks about. It
was all psychedelic related stuff. Yeah, he was telling stories of all the different types
of trips and stuff. Yeah, that was a fun time. So you were saying this music could do that?
It made me think of his idea of what psychedelics play in consciousness or the things you could
derive from your psychedelic trip to help you understand consciousness in a sense. He was
saying like consciousness is based upon the idea like your specific world that you're consciously
experiencing is based on the everything that you've been taught and told your entire life.
And like the psychedelics kind of rip you from that whole thing. So like, and his, his analogy
was imagine a psychedelic being, the one that you might meet on a trip somewhere or whatever,
imagine that being, um, when it, so like when it takes psychedelics or when it does something
like that, where it alters its consciousness, it's being portal to our world. And just how
amazing and nuanced and crazy that experience would be for that being, being the thing you're
tripping on and seeing, imagine it's seeing you and watching your daily life and seeing
what you're doing as part of its trip. And like that, I mean, obviously that's a funny way
to visualize it and stuff, but it makes me think of like the idea that like, based on your circumstances,
the way, you know, the people you were born to and the circumstances you were born in and
the country you were born in and all of the schooling that you had to go on to and then
now you're an adult and you know, you're basically making choices based on all of that and your
reality is set up upon that. Like we, there's some evidence that not all of us are experiencing
the world the same way. Right. Based on the mental health and like people with schizophrenia
or whatever it might be. And they're experiencing the world a completely different way. So it's
also people with different views about how the world works. They also experience the world
differently. Yeah. Everybody who has a different point of view from somebody else is going to
experience the world a little different from everybody else. Yeah. It's like the old. thing
about like you can't control what happens to you. All you can control is like how you see
it, how you react to it, you know? Like you can control what your vision, what your response
is to the world around you, but you don't control the world around you directly. But in a way,
maybe you do. Maybe the way you see it is controlled by, right? So like... There are some people
who just see certain types of people or certain situations as being a negative one. Even if
somebody else might see it as a positive one. Right. You know, there's evidence of that.
Right. And it's... that's a simple way to see it, but if they're both looking at the same
situation from different points of view, and they're completely seeing a different situation,
that's evidence that they're not seeing the situation the same. And if that basic fact...
is true, then how do we know that what you're actually visualizing and seeing is not also
skewed by that? Right. I don't know. It's interesting. But yeah, I think that's a good place to end
because we kind of drifted off. But we only got through one chapter. Yeah, sounds about
right for us. This book is probably going to be the first and last episode of this podcast.
Dude. It won't be the first. It'll be like, what, our third? Yeah, it's on track. But I
think maybe we'll take a break from this, and we'll do a couple other books and other topics,
and then revisit it again. But this is such a good book, and I think it'll be kind of our
long time. It's interesting how it connected to our last episode and our next one. It brought
up reincarnation for me. This book is kind of perfect, kind of like. Interludes with a lot
of the different topics that we talk about and it kind of gives paints a different picture
So even if we're talking about it in one aspect, you can kind of reference this book in some
way. Yeah Or pull from it. Yeah All right, cool you can follow us on YouTube or on Facebook
and Instagram. Yep and you can like comment, subscribe to our YouTube and Rumble. We can
send us a message, send us a comment, send us an email, host at dualitycheck.net. We want
to have a conversation. Go check out our website, too. Dean has made it twice now. We're going
to maybe make it a third time here soon. I think it's looking pretty good these days. There's
more I can do to it, and I got plans for it in the future. But come check it out and give
us some feedback. I do. I put a decent amount of work into every episode. So if you click
on an episode, go to the website, click the episode you're listening to, look at my show
notes there in case your podcast doesn't have the show notes. That'll be the best way to
see the type of stuff we're talking about as we're talking about it. But YouTube is another
good place where it'll all be there.
Yeah, some good visualizations. You can full screen it. Yeah, yeah. All righty, y'all. Hi,
y'all. We will be back with you next time to discuss reincarnation.
Drew 2.0. Out. Ha ha ha.