Welcome to Duality Check, the podcast where two brothers embark on a thrilling journey
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I'm Drew. And I'm Dean. And today, this is an exciting episode. It's going to be the first
of many of shows where we talk about UFOs, which is one of my favorite topics. It's one of our
favorites. Yeah, we go on. I mean, I think I'm late getting home most nights when we're hanging
out. because we're talking about UFOs. Yeah. We're always sending each other little YouTube
videos or articles or podcasts about it. Constantly keeping each other updated on anything that
we're both interested in. Yeah. This is one of the big ones that we talk about a lot. Totally.
But this will probably be kind of a broad stroke. Just get a look into our minds on this topic,
right? Yeah. We just kind of want to. Discuss the topic from an overview standpoint, where
do we sit on it? What are the different perspectives? And then from there, you know, future episodes
can talk about, you know, specific cases or specific books on the matter or whatever. Yeah.
And we'll, we hope to, you know, get people to send us in over time, you know, send us
in some stories, something that we might've not talked about or. just to anything that
might, you know. I don't know. Just anything that might intrigue you and something you want
to show us? Yeah, get involved. Yeah, send us some stuff. We've actually been doing a pretty
poor job of letting you guys know how you can get in touch with us. That's true. We were
just talking about that. We realized on the last episode we literally told Zero about any
of that. Yeah, people are like, oh, and we're. I mean, I guess it's kind of weird, though,
because it's like, if you're listening to it, you know where to find us. I mean, on your
podcast player. But we have a website. Yep, we do. which is dualitycheck.net. net. It's
becoming more popular. We've got Facebook, Twitter. TikTok, but you'll probably won't see us on
there much. It's more of the, you might. We're still new. I don't do a lot of social media
in my personal life, so it's gonna be a growing experience to like integrate some of the social
media for the show. But it'll be fun doing it all together. So, yeah. Tick tock of rumble
we're going to post. I think you said that. I don't think I did, but Spotify and you can
find your podcasts. Yep. Also you can email us. Yep. If you would like to give us feedback
about the show, if you would like to ask questions, just send a note, give a recommendation. You
can email us at hosts at duality check.net. Yep. H O S T S at duality check.net. So today,
before we get into the UFO topic, I did want to do a little bit of a follow up on yesterday,
well, last week's episode. Yesterday. Yesterday's episode about the younger Dryas. Because there
was one point where we were talking about the torrid meteor stream, and we weren't exactly
sure about the state of studying it. Current, like how much they've mapped and stuff, right?
Right. We kind of covered it a little bit at the end of the podcast. But. Yeah. So I found
an interesting article about it. And this, I think, I actually would like to find out more
about it. But I wanted to share this. It's a pretty short article. And yeah, let's get into
it. This is fizz.org. Fizz, P-H-Y-S. org, yep. Not fizz, like F-I-Z-Z. Right, not like fizzy
soda. Yeah. Study investigates potential risk of torrid meteor swarm by Jeff Reynard, University
of Western
All right. A new study from Western University posits proof to the possibility that an oncoming
swarm of meteors likened to the Loch Ness Monster in Bigfoot by some extraterrestrial experts
may indeed pose an existential risk for Earth and its inhabitants. That's us. I'm considering.
Sorry. It's weird that they that just off the top. It's weird that they likened an oncoming
swarm of meteors to the Loch Ness Monster in Bigfoot. Yeah. Uh, this sounds like science
journalists saying, uh, a bunch of people who are into UFOs and Graham Hancock ancient alien
stuff are talking about this meteor stream. Okay. They're clearly making something bigger
out of it than it is. Just like that old Bigfoot story where, you know, you guys remember that?
Such a joke. Okay. So they're like, yeah, even though these weirdos talk about this thing
on all the time, it may indeed pose an existential risk.
So when considering catalysts for catastrophic collision, there are two main sources, near
earth objects like asteroids and meteoroids and interlopers from the outer solar system,
which are typically comets. Over the past few decades, a great deal of effort has been expended
in cataloging more than 90% of the potentially hazardous near earth objects. And work is ongoing
to detect, catalog, and track greater numbers and smaller sizes of these objects. Interlopers
from the outer solar system are much harder to chart, but again, work is underway. So near-Earth
objects, I think it's essentially trying to distinguish things that essentially have like
an Earth-like orbit around the sun. So they share a kind of a similar orbit to us, and
they may cross our orbit at certain times, which makes them potentially hazardous. So there's
a lot of those that have been mapped, but not as much work has been done on the outer solar
system object. the Oort cloud objects that can get kicked into the inner solar system. And
those are the ones that you science would likely not see coming. They're harder to see until
they get close enough to the sun that they like light up and have these big tails, right? Because
they're sitting so far out that they're these icy comets. And then when they come in and
get close enough to the sun, the sun will start causing them to out gas. Anyway, the torrid
swarm is a third potential source of risk that changes the probabilities of possible catastrophic
impacts. The Tunguska-Russia explosion of 1908 is considered a one-in-one thousand year event,
assuming a random distribution of events over time. But the torrid swarm, a dense cluster
within the torrid meteor stream, and through which
reason for the unlikely occurrence that a once per thousand year event occurred just over
a century ago. If the hypothesized might of the torrid swarm is successfully proven, this
also heightens the possibility of a cluster of large impacts over a short period of time.
Based on the timing of the thousand year recurrence?
Yeah, and it says that we cross it periodically, but we cross it twice a year. So yeah, that's
periodically. That's very periodic. But yeah, but that might be. It's not always the densest
part of the swarm. That's what I was going to say. Yeah, it's not necessarily always the
densest part. But any time you go out in October, November, we're looking at the eather years.
Sorry, does it always change which part of the cluster that we hit? Or is it pretty regular?
Maybe it'll explain it more in here, but I don't know. So. This includes a little YouTube video
and we'll link to that for the podcast. But it's 30 seconds. Let's watch it. It's just
a little animation showing. So we've got objects orbiting and we see Earth crossing the orbit
of those objects. Yeah.
And then as those Earth crosses through those objects, it kind of color-codes the objects
based on, I think, distance from Earth or likelihood of hitting Earth. Yeah, what does that chart
say? M stands for? Just says meters from it. I doubt it's meters. It could be distance.
Well, meter, I don't know, miles. Miles, maybe, yeah. From it, like how far it was away from
Earth at the time as it passed by it. Yeah, we'll link all this stuff. But it's interesting
because it looks like a little rainbow, and they're all color-coded sections of the swarm,
the show, something that we can't. Western University. I bet you it'll describe it. Maybe. Further
study published by ARC-CIV, A-R-X-I-V, and accepted for publication in monthly notices of the Royal
Astronomical Society, David Clark from Western's Department of Earth Sciences, and Paul Weigert
and Peter Brown.
Is that waggert? Weegert. He said, weegert. And Peter Brown from Western's Department of
Physics and Astronomy simulated a large collection of 100 meter diameter meteoroids, like the
one that triggered the 1908 Tunguska event, with orbits similar to the torrid swarm and
calculated their positions forward for 1,000 years. By analyzing each object's position
and motion over time, the astronomers calculated two optimal viewing times and telescope pointing
locations for the torrid swarm to properly investigate its overall risk potential. Gotcha, so they
are studying this shit. Yeah, but it is, that was just a simulation. Is that the entire,
is that just a dense part of it or is that the entire torrid media stream? That is a simulation.
Of just the densest parts of it or what? No. So it says a large collection of 100 meter
diameter meteoroids like the one that triggered. So I think what they're doing is they're essentially
taking a known date and time of when we crossed the debris that caused the 1908 event, throwing
a bunch of objects there at that time, and then simulating it forward. OK. Okay, I don't get
the impression that was like an actual scan of the stream itself, right? Well, yeah, cuz
I mean the last time we passed it Well, I guess we passed it twice a year. But yeah, but the
last well there was the one in Chelyabinsk Tell you been scared Russia the one like you can
see videos where people have dashcam videos and stuff of it Oh, yeah, he's just loading
Yeah, it blew out people's windows for like, it was like a 10, 20 mile radius from where
it exploded. It didn't do any like other than, you know, blowing out windows. Some people
like got glass in their eyes who were standing in their windows. Never stand next to a window
during an explosion. That's crazy. Yeah. But yeah, okay. So, but like physically it didn't
like topple buildings and like, cause it was high enough in the atmosphere. Well, Yeah,
it was high, but it was small. Like something high in the atmosphere, if it's bigger and
it explodes, can create a bigger impact. Right, and the impact would be on the atmosphere itself.
Like if it was a too big size object that exploded in children's, like it would have flattened
that city. Right, right, okay. Yeah, that checks out. According to Western Meteor Physics Group
data analysis, the earth will approach within 30 million kilometers of the center of the
torrid meteor swarm this summer. This is in 2019. The closest such encounter since 1975.
The calculations also show that this will be the best viewing time of the torrid swarm until
the early 2030s. 2030s, that's only seven years away. Eight, nine, if you're talking about
early 30s. There's been great interest in the space community. Since we shared our results
at the recent Planetary Defense Conference in Washington, DC says David Clark, a Western
graduate student and first author of the study, there's strong meteoric and NEO evidence supporting
the torus swarm and its potential risks, but this summer brings a unique opportunity to
observe and quantify these objects. That was the name of the study, right? The. NEO evidence.
Well, the Western graduate student and his first author of the study. And that was the name
of the study. That was like a quote from the study, or is that a quote from him? Oh, yeah,
that's what he said. That's a quote from David Clark, who was the author of the study. OK.
So hopefully, yeah, that's it. It's short. There's got to be something more updated, because this
was just essentially predicting that in 2019 was going to be an optimum viewing time. So
there's got to be stuff since then about what data was collected in 2019. So I'll do a little
more searching. Yeah, that's the beauty of this. We'll just keep going and keep talking about
it. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this is at least a rough scan of what the- I was going to say,
because if this is, it's got to be a, I mean, we have plenty of stuff that could scan that
as it passed by, right? Like you would think. Well, yeah. I mean, there's all the amateur
astronomers around the world. Yeah. As long as they know what to do. Well, we also have
stuff in space, too. We have stuff in space, yeah. We have to have been able to scan it
or at least take a photo of it. Yeah, the problem with the torridz is like it's massive. They
the part of the sky that they come out of makes it so that they're like backlit by the Sun
sometimes. So it can be hard to Yeah, to photograph them. You can still get you know different
types of imagery off of them. Yeah instead of visual light. Anyway, that's an interesting
little bit. So they are studying it, and they have a decent idea of what it looks like and
what the route looks like. And this information was presented at a planetary defense conference.
In Washington, DC. So at least there are some people really keeping an eye on it. Cool. Which
is hopeful. Definitely. And we'll keep talking about it as more and more come out. Yeah, it's
a crazy thing. Your mic is coming in really low. It's coming in real low? Yeah, can you
kick your level up one? Is that any better? That's much better. OK. All right. They don't
want to hear me.
Let's talk about UFOs. Let's get into some UFOs. You got something you want to show me? Um,
I've got some stuff to read. I've got some topics to talk about. Um, but I really think we should
mostly have a free forum conversation. Um, sorry for that cause I didn't bring anything. I know
I've got some thoughts here and some things I want to talk about. Yeah. So what do we think
about UFOs? What's your take? My rough take UFOs specifically. I think they are something
that we're physically seeing, right? They're not some psychological trick of the mind. I
mean, and if they are, it's the same as seeing. Yeah, because it's still something people are
experiencing. Yeah, it's an experienced thing, whether it be something that somebody else
can validate or not.
Yeah. But, you know, just generally on UFOs specifically, I mean, I think we're seeing
something. There's no way that this has gone on. And UFOs is a loose term for me, too. Like,
I don't think about it as like, it has to be a saucer. It has to be this, or it has to be
that. I mean, it could be an orb, or, you know. Yeah. It's an unidentified flying object, so.
Right. The new term UAPs. UAPs is what they talk about now. Unidentified, oh is it? Unidentified,
anom, is it not? Unidentified anomalous phenomena. Yeah. Aerial phenomena.
Well, no, I think there's also like UAP meaning unidentified or yeah, unidentified anomalous
phenomena. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a little more open umbrella. When the fact that they
changed the term, like the government's been saying UFOs just as long as the public has
been saying UFOs, right? Right. It was flying saucers, then UFOs, now it's UAPs. But I mean,
maybe there's something to read into it as far as them changing it to UAPs. As far as like
unidentified aerial phenomena, like they're admitting it's a phenomena in the air and it's
unidentified. Well, I don't think that's much of an admission. That's a pretty broad, nebulous
terminology. Like, a lot of things could be anomalous phenomena. I don't think it's indicative
of anything much, but you can still read into it, right? You can still read into the fact
that why would you change it from unidentified flying object to unidentified aerial phenomena,
unidentified anomalous phenomena? Well, because what if it's not? like physical matter so you
don't know that it's an object. Exactly. What if flying isn't the right lingo to describe
what it's doing? Exactly. That's what I'm talking about, reading into it. Yeah. That's what I'm
talking about. But it's only the mouthpieces of the government that are doing this, too.
There's still nobody. There's no Congress is now looking into it and stuff. And they're
the ones that are in the media. But there's really no like, on the books hard documentation
of them taking it seriously yet. Well, there is. Well, they're clearly taking it seriously.
The question is, do they admit how seriously they're taking it? Admitting it, exactly. So
yeah, as far as the big UFO flying saucer craze in America, it all kind of started with the
Roswell incident and Betty and Barney Hill. And they were in the 40s and 50s. There's like
this whole series of different events. Also, it's kind of like the beginning of like sci-fi
TV. And there's always like sci-fi authors. And like we got like the beginnings of like
the space program. And like. Yeah. this type of like topics are really capturing certain
people's imagination. Absolutely. But the phenomenon goes back way before that. Exactly. Yeah. Even
in modern times, like way before Roswell. And I actually, that's one of the things I brought
is I want to read from a snippet from this book. It's called UFOs and the national security
state by Richard Dolan, who's a dope author. He's got a lot of cool books. He's got a YouTube
channel also. I need to check out his YouTube. I haven't seen that. Yeah, he's got a lot of
cool stuff. So this is like a two volume, like history of UFOs and the government essentially.
Like simultaneous, but not necessarily overlapping. Well, it's called UFOs and the national security
state. So it's like as best of a history of like the government handling UFOs. as he could
do. Yeah. But it is an introduction to the book. He starts off like he gives a chapter to like
pre-1940s, like pre-Roswell events. Yeah, let's go through that now. I think it's a good time
to just go through that now. OK, so I'm going to read this snippet. In 1897, the United States
experienced the first modern wave of sightings. These were the quote unquote airships. which
first appeared in San Francisco in late 1896 and moved eastward. Thousands of people, including
astronomers, saw them, which typically had lights, usually red, green, or white, move slowly,
and seem to be under intelligent control. Sometimes voices can be heard, whether in English or
something unintelligible. On a few occasions, people claim to see their occupants and even
to speak with them. Such outlandish sightings got some press. The New York Herald Tribune
described a sighting in Chicago on April 9, 1897 that lasted from 8 p.m. until 2 a.m. This
is from the New York Herald Tribune. Thousands of amazed persons declared that the lights
seen in the Northwest were those of an airship or some floating object. Miles above Earth,
some declared that they could distinguish two cigar-shaped objects and great wings. which
is pretty interesting. And great wings. Interesting, yeah, I know that.
It's almost like they were seeing, like what they were seeing was advanced for their time,
which was airplanes. Yeah. And what we are seeing is advanced for our time, which is these flying
saucers. Yeah. That seemed to move without gravity. There's still cigar shaped objects, which gets
reported a lot. Well, you think, like if you look at the fuselage of an airplane, it looks
like a cigar shape. And if you think about great wings, it's the wings of the airplane. Like
it's cigar shaped and if you looked at it from a profile, you would see just a cigar shape.
Right. If you look at it underneath. This is 1897. This is before airplanes. Right. Especially
commercial airliners or something that would be like the arch. Well this is before the Wright
brothers. They were in like the early 1900s. Yeah, no, exactly. So this is, this is pre-airplane.
So imagine seeing an airplane at that time. Right. You wouldn't have no idea. And especially
the, what was the color of the lights that they showed? They call it airships. I think there
was blimps and stuff back then. No, yeah, there were. But they called them airships because
they didn't have a term, like an airplane for it. Right. Their term was a ship, like shipping
stuff in the ocean. Yeah, like a boat. Yeah, a massive ship. What were the color of the
lights they described there? They said red, green, or white. Those are the colors of the
lights on the airplane. that you see blinking when you look up at an airplane. Yeah, yeah.
So check this out two giant searchlights apparently illuminated the object other far stranger incidents
occurred explanations included many of the standard culprits of later ages mass hallucination and
hysteria experimental aircraft private not military opium induced dreams hoaxes or all the above
in 1897 airship sightings were the most remarkable of the pre 1940s era But other noteworthy UFO
events also took place, including one in Western China in 1926 by the party of explorer Nicholas
Rorick. In his book, Altai Himalaya, Rorick described the sighting as an interesting occurrence.
As he related, his party noticed a high-flying shiny object The group brought three powerful
field glasses and watched a huge spheroid body shining in the sun, clearly visible against
the blue sky, and moving very fast. Rorick and his party were certain they saw something real.
What was it? What would be flying like that in the Western China Desert in 1926? No answer
ever emerged. These early reports are intriguing but offer a few avenues for further research.
UFOs appeared sporadically, elicited minimal response from the public and authorities, and
were promptly forgotten. One wonders in any event what kind of response would have been
possible.
So yeah. And then he gets into what happens during World War Two, World War Two and the
food fighters. The Second World War changed all of this. Before the war, airplanes were
scarce and radar non-existent. By the wars end, both were global. In other words, it became
much, much easier to detect strange aerial phenomena after the 1940s. Since military personnel were
the main users of radar and airplanes, they might naturally be expected to encounter more
UFOs than the average person. And they most certainly did. Let us take a moment to review
some key developments of the American military national security establishment.
Interesting. No, that totally makes sense. I mean, as the technology for detecting craft
rises, so does the occurrence of sightings or. I mean, if you're talking about seeing aircraft,
where do you have a better view of the sky than up in an aircraft? Yeah, obviously, that's
going to be the place where you have the most sightings. And still, probably the place where
we're having. so many sightings that were just not being reported, especially with all this
stuff, like Commander Fravor and some commercial pilots that have encounters with something
in the sky that buzzes past them and they almost run into.
All right, so this whole next part is a little longer, and I wanted to go over it together.
Oh, no, no. Yeah, this, yeah. Let me do this next chunk, and then we'll take a break here.
OK. A not-so-tame incident occurred in Los Angeles on February 25, 1942. That night, a number
of unidentified craft flew over the city and seemingly caused a blackout. At least a million
residents awoke to air raid sirens at 2 25 in the morning. And US Army personnel fired 1430
rounds of anti aircraft shells to bring down what they presumed were Japanese planes. But
these were not Japanese planes. George Marshall wrote a memorandum to President Roosevelt about
the incident, which remained classified until 1974. Marshall concluded that conventional
aircraft were involved probably commercial sources operated by enemy agents for purposes of spreading
alarm, disclosing locations of anti-aircraft positions and slowing production through blackout.
Despite the barrage of American anti-aircraft fire, none of these commercial planes were
brought down, although several homes and buildings were destroyed and six civilian deaths were
attributed to the barrage. Considering the carnage, the military's explanation was meager. US Navy
Secretary Knox even denied that any aircraft had been over the city. He called the incident
a false alarm due to war nerves. The local press needless to say.
did not take this very well. The Long Beach Independent noted that, quote, there is a mysterious
reticence about the whole affair and it appears that some form of censorship is trying to halt
discussion of the matter. It is noteworthy that for 30 years, until the release of the Marshall
memorandum, the Department of Defense claimed to have no record of the event. Five years
before Roswell, the military was already learning to clamp down on UFOs. The very next day after
quote, the Battle of Los Angeles, the crew of the Dutch cruiser Trompen, the Timor Sea, saw
a large illuminated disc approaching at terrific speed. The object circled above the ship for
three or four hours, then flew off at an estimated speed of 3,000 to 3,500 miles an hour. Obviously
the officer on duty could not identify the object as any known aircraft. Yeah, 3,000 miles per
hour, yeah. And we still don't. So this is the quote unquote battle of Los Angeles. Wow. Yeah.
I mean, to think that it was commercial sources operated by enemy agents for purposes of spreading
alarm, disclosing new locations of anti-aircraft positions, and slowing production, despite
the fact that we didn't find any debris afterwards, right? Uh, yeah, no, there was no crashed aircraft.
We were shooting, they were shooting at a bunch of stuff. They, I mean, they lit up the sky
with ammunition that night and they swear like you're talking about multiple positions. Sure.
War nerves are going to get you, but you're talking about a mass sighting. And unless it,
unless it was like the first person who started shooting. So everybody started shooting type
of a situation. That's right. But still, I mean, I mean, you can imagine in the beginning of
the war, like... People were fucking scared. Our military would be on edge. Super on edge.
Especially, yeah. Because... Yeah. And I see that as possible. But at the same time... But
I haven't heard of any such technology they had at the time where they could fly an aircraft
over a city and cause a mass blackout. Oh, right. Yeah. You got to think about the blackout part
of it too. Yeah. which is interesting. But still, you would think that they would have hit one
of the planes. Yeah. Be some kind of evidence, other than a blackout. Yeah. If it was commercial.
The next clip I'll talk about after the break. But this one has to do with a really interesting
incident in Washington, DC. Because the reason I brought it up is because you know how always
people who have been in the police Like there's like a saying where people are like, why don't
they just land on the White House lawn? Right. And they basically did. They literally did,
yep. It's pretty interesting, exciting, and yeah. I think people should know about this.
I know about it, but I'm still interested to hear this. Yeah, so anyway, we're going on
baby break number one and we'll be back. Enjoy some music. Babies are good so far, but definitely
fill up our drinks. Yeah. Try the music. We'll be back. Audio.
you
All right. I think we are back. Well, I know we're back. Let the music sink in. I like this
one. Yeah, that's nice. Yes, during the whole break, we just sit there and listen to the
music and then we come right back. There's no need for a break, but we do it anyway. All
right. Wake up, mouse. No, we are. Drinking because everybody's curious by this point.
You're three episodes in. You've heard us talk about beer. Just. Just accept it. We are drinking
Laganitas, the beast of both worlds by coastal IPA. I'm assuming they, yeah, they use the
East Coast flavor with a West Coast clarity is what they're, they're claiming. 8% ABV.
There you go, pops. Yeah. I think that works with his standard. I think that's good. He
usually goes for like nines. Yeah. I like it.
It's pretty good. It's got a lot of flavor in the hops. It's not too malty. It's got a dry
kind of thing going on. Yeah. I'm afraid. I'm going to try to dig. All right. So yeah, we
were talking about UFOs before Roswell. Now, this one's actually after, but this is still
early history of UFOs. So. I picked this bit out because I find it really interesting that
not only has the UFO phenomenon gone on for a long time, but a lot of the early phenomenon
was still denied and stuff, but it was reported differently too. Yeah. Well, it was probably
the way they described what they were seeing was a lot different. Right? Yeah. You got to
think that. And I think it... I think people use whatever- We're gonna talk about it more,
but like cultural, it's cultural, like cultural. Well, yeah, like if you come from a certain
place in the world, you have a certain belief system, your head's in like a certain space,
and you see something in the sky, like your experience of that is gonna filter through
your life lens, right? So the words you choose to describe things, the things that you liken
it to will be different. Like calling someone a tic-tac, doesn't make sense when like you
don't have a culture that has the tic tac candy at the grocery store that you stop by every
day. In fact, for probably multiple people in the world, that's not there. They don't necessarily
come by tic tacs and they may not describe it that way. They would probably have no idea
what the hell you're talking about. Right. I think they'd be like, so what shape is it?
Right. Exactly. So it's a like a cylinder with a ball on each end. Yeah, with a dome. It's
a propane tank. Yeah, you might still lose some people there. You would. Yeah. All right. Well,
Washington, D.C. sightings, 1952. This is another excerpt from a little bit later, but still
early point in Richard Dolan's book, UFOs and the National Security State. And this is in
reference and in refutation to like. A lot of people, a lot of debunkers, a lot of naysayers
of the UFO topic, they talk about like, why don't they just come and land on the White
House lawn? There's the whole movie meme, like, take me to your leader. They land on the White
House lawn, they pop out, they want to be taken to the leader and they're like, aliens are
here. Humans better deal with us. Everybody just better figure shit out. Right. People
ask why they wouldn't do that, but well, here is an interesting example. Let's listen to
this. Washington, DC had already been the scene of UFO activity, but what happened for the
next two weekends went far beyond anything to that point. The Washington sightings were among
the most compelling and dramatic UFO sightings in American history and remain, despite any
official pretense to the contrary, unsolved. So at 11.40 p.m. on July 19th, what year, 1952.
Radar at Washington National Airport picked up a formulation of seven objects near Andrews
Air Force Base, moving along at a leisurely pace of 100 to 130 miles an hour. Before long,
two of the targets suddenly accelerated and vanished off the scope within seconds. One
of them apparently reached 7,000 miles an hour. This got the attention of several controllers,
especially when they learned that a second radar at the airport, as well as a radar at Andrews
Air Force Base also picked up the objects. For six hours, between eight and 10 UFOs were tracked
on radar.
Yeah. The senior air traffic controller for the CAA, Harry G. Barnes, quote, knew immediately
that a very strange situation existed. In his opinion, so this is a quote from Barnes, the
movements were completely radical compared to those of ordinary aircraft. They followed no
set course and were not in any formation. We only seem to be able to track them for about
three miles at a time. For six hours, there were at least 10 unidentifiable objects moving
above Washington. They were not ordinary aircraft. I can safely deduce that they performed gyrations
which no known aircraft could perform. So that's his quote.
I mean, yeah. What do you guys say? I mean, yeah. I mean, this guy is trained to do. He's
a trained air traffic controller. Yeah. This guy's trained to look at radar and to look
at all the different instruments and use his eyes when it comes to this stuff. And here
you're hearing it from him. So several times at least two of the radar stations displayed
the same target simultaneously. But the phenomenon was not restricted to radar tracking. Several
Capitol Airlines pilots saw the objects visually as orange lights in the same area that the
radar indicated they should be. Just where were they? Over the White House and Capitol.
A radar visual sighting of 8 to 10 UFOs over such highly restricted airspace is certainly
cause to send a few jet interceptors and this is exactly what happened. By the time the interceptors
arrived shortly before dawn, it was too late. The objects were gone. How long was that time
span? So how long were they there for being observed for? For like six hours, they said.
Six hours. Wow. Yeah. 1140 p.m. And they were seen by airliners and they were seen by radar.
Yeah. From multiple stations. Yeah. And the Air Force Base and the airport.
and jets were scrambled, but by the time they got there, they were gone. Yeah. It took over
six hours, that's crazy. Yeah. Imagine taking six hours to scramble jets in an emergency
situation. I mean. Six hours. You would think they have rotating shifts. I mean, this is
like the Cold War we're talking about, right? Well, that's what I'm saying. If something
is happening and it's over the White House, you're talking about six hours. it took to
scramble jazz to find out what was going on there. Yeah. That's a little suspicious. That
actually is a little suspicious. That means that they're just like dragging their feet
like, ah, it's probably nothing. Or they're like, we know what this is. But I don't know
what our response capability time was back then. But you would think it would be pretty high.
Better than that. Yeah. You'd think at least half that, if not like an hour. Yeah. Or less.
Like, what are you talking about here? Yeah. We're talking about Andrews Air Force Base,
which is probably not very far. We're talking over the White House. Right, well I'm talking
about where the Air Force base is. Nearest the White House. Andrews is close. So why are we
taking three hours? I mean, you've got to imagine even at the time they had 24-hour staffed.
They were 24-hour ready to go, especially during the Cold War. They may not have jets in the
air in the area 24 hours a day. No, no, but I mean ready to have pilots in planes, have
pilots on base. ready to go. So if you wake them up, they're like firefighters on an emergency
call. They're just shooting to a plane. Right. You would imagine. So based on what you know
about military, like what we know about military house, you know. Yeah. The sighting made headlines
the next day. And yet, according to repel, nobody bothered to tell the Air Force intelligence
about the sighting. At least nobody bothered to tell. ATIC, which by now was receiving about
30 UFO reports per day. When Rappelt arrived in Washington to investigate, he learned that
President Truman was personally interested in the affair and wanted a full investigation.
Good news for Rappelt, except that all the while he was in Washington, Rappelt could not obtain
a military vehicle and had to use a bus. Truman wants to do the full investigation, clearly
not Blue Book. In the week that followed, sightings continued at an intense pace throughout the
country. Several occurred over military bases, according to the Washington DC Daily News.
The Defense Department ordered jets to shoot down UFOs, which refused to land in order to
do so. Meanwhile, senior Air Force officers urged intelligence to hold a press conference
to relieve public tension.
Go back up, go back up. Yeah.
So the Defense Department ordered jets to shoot down UFOs which refused to land when ordered
to do so. Yeah.
So this whole following week to this crazy thing, there's a bunch of UFO sightings all over the
country and some of them.
which I don't. Thank you. What year was this, of 1952? Mm-hmm. Man, was this around the same
time as like, World of the Worlds? Yeah, that was in the 50s. Radio show? I don't know exactly
what the date, let's see. Let's look it up.
radio broadcast 1938 38 okay
So this is later, but that's in memory, obviously. You gotta be thinking about like kids that
were growing up in that era, right? Are now in their 30s, having families in the military.
Yeah, yeah. And they grew up during the time, you know, just something to think about. You
can think like skeptics would be like. They're just imagining stuff from their sci-fi fantasies.
Well, they're seeing something, right? Like they've got to be experiencing something. Right.
I mean, we're talking about radar and visual sighting of multiple sources. Yeah. So there's
something physical happening. It's just the interpretation that is up for debate in my
mind. It's the interpretation of what is actually happening on a fundamental level. Well, it
may be a thing of like, what power does our government actually have over it anyway? Yeah,
probably none. That's why it's been happening for so long and nothing can be done. You know,
it's either they figured that figured out that they were going to be able to do something
in the 40s when Roswell happened and when all these crashes and like all these things, all
these sightings are to happen within the time frame of the US government. But it's been happening
for a long time. So like, they just, like the time, like the mindset, each generation's mindset
is gonna change the phenomena. Yeah. And how it manifests. Yeah, so I'm actually gonna finish
the clip there just because. I think we can segue. This isn't about that particular setting
in detail. This is just to illustrate the reason I'm reading it. for this intro UFOs, segue
discussion is because I just want to impress upon like you that the phenomenon is old, it
goes back, like it's been acknowledged by the government, it hasn't been explained, but it's
been acknowledged. So these things have happened and there's clearly some interaction. So it's
no real surprise that the government would continue to investigate it. And it's also no real surprise
that during the height of the Cold War, they would suppress a lot of that information. Keep
that information as secret as possible. Of course. Yeah. Because they don't know if it's the Russians
and they don't want to let on what they know. Well, they don't want to. And if and if they
knew it wasn't the Russians, they definitely don't want to let any of that technology. If
they find anything. Yeah. Anything they can know that the Russians don't is potentially
a useful tool. Yeah. National security stuff. And I do in a governmental capacity, like national
security is part of their mandate. That's something that I support. I don't want to get political
here, but it shouldn't be political. My thoughts on this shouldn't be political, but it is in
a sense that the whole military industrial complex is the problem. Like it's the source. You can
really trace a lot of things back to it because of its ties to private sector businesses, to
private aerospace industries that are, in a lot of these UFO stories, are indicted in knowing
about these or being part of these coverups or whatever they might be. Yeah. It's just
not really a surprise. So like. People are like, oh, what evidence do you have? And like, if
you look at the phenomenon, if you look at the actual data, if you look at the people, the
reports from government and from private witnesses across decades, like going back 100 years plus,
then there's something going on. Something physical is happening that is being interpreted by people
all over the world in different ways. And it's been done throughout time as we're gonna talk
about here. I think, yeah, I think if we can understand that there's something going on,
and if we can be open-minded enough to not prejudge what we think that is, whether it's to deny
it or to believe it's little green men from a different planet. Or fairies or. Yeah, like
regardless of the different theories of what it could be. to make up your mind on any of
those without like an abundance of evidence and to call the entire phenomenon any one of
those things is like to oversimplify. Absolutely. And I think it's good to be candid about the
fact that like none of this can be explained materially in a way that satisfies science
today. So that leading to that it's- No, but I'm not saying on the cutting edge. Sure. No,
no, I'm not saying it will never be Yeah, but it's not hasn't been fully explained to like
the atheist materialist reductionist like Worldview of people who don't even think alien life may
even exist at all Who think we might be the first life out there? Yeah, like to them like
they're like show me the proof right Where's the evidence? And that's just, I think it's
an unacceptable answer given our current age and state of information. Absolutely, and I
100% agree with that. I think that it, people's experience, the experiences of the individual
are what need to be investigated when it comes to a lot of this stuff. Because a lot of this
is like personal, like it's like, you are seeing something that is happening that, is in a different
scope or different realm of experience that you are tapped into, but you're still capable
of experiencing something. You know what I mean? I don't know that this is going to be some
kind of physical... integration of like alien life and like it's gonna turn out to be some
kind of mib like men in black Yeah, I mean, I think it could be where there's like a little
bit of all those things and it could be a combination in certain areas and it could be you know like
Exactly what the final details are if we were able to know everything like They're gonna
be unexpected You know, it's gonna be it's gonna be kind of erroneous in a sense of like, it
probably won't happen in a time frame where it'll matter much to humans because I feel
like technology and the humans are evolving at more of an exponential rate than we assumed
because of technology. I think that things are going to change us to a point that our fundamental
structures of like reality are going to change in a sense, even just with AI and like the
stuff that's going on with that and like the integration that's going to have with a worldwide
connection. Like you got to think like we're how many generations removed from the same
anatomically modern humans that hunted and gathered for sustenance and we're going into an era
where we're going to be completely. like, automa- like it's gonna be an auto- like automatic
society where everything is just done for the human and like I don't know, it's gonna be
like a totally different experience of what it is to be human and that will That is one
of the catalysts for evolutionary change in my opinion Like that could be the singularity
Could be could be It's hard to yeah, I mean I want to go there, but I feel like we're still
in the future. It's going to take a while to get to that point still. Yeah. I want to circle
back to the phenomena itself and the idea of these sightings going back. Back in time. Yeah.
Once we can grant that there's something happening that we don't understand, regardless of what
it is, then we can start understanding that if you look back in the history of humanity.
and you start looking at different events and paintings and artifacts and evidence and, you
know, people's descriptions of religious happenings. Yeah, like rituals and stuff and... Well, like,
just things that people... Massive events that happened in history for that religion. So there
are some paintings. Here's one called the crucifixion of Christ. It's in the Vesokite Monastery in
Kosovo. It was painted in the 1300s. And that's this here. Yeah, we're going to have all this.
You'll be able to see it if you're on YouTube, if you're on any of the other ones you go to
the show notes. It should be on the chapter art and our podcasts and overcast. So this
is a painting. We got the crucifixion. We got like, people standing around, Jesus, angels
flying above with their wings, but that we also have on the top left and the top right in the
skyline is two beings which are clearly in some sort of craft. Some sort of ball of light or
ball of, the one on the right looks more like a solid, like titanium or stainless steel.
It looks like a cross section to me. It looks like it's showing the craft or maybe their
windows. Well, no, it's definitely a cross section. Yeah, it's showing the openness of it. It's
showing the in-person inside of it. So you would imagine there being a finished dome and then
a finished cone to finish off the nose there. They look like stars or like comets, but they
have people sitting in them, which is sure looks like a UFO to me. What is someone in the 1300s
doing portraying that? Exactly, how do they even come up with that idea? Yeah. Here's another
one. This one is
The miracle of the snow Masolino the panic alle yeah, what is that? so This portrays a legend
of snowfall that happened a hot summer day in Rome in the fourth century Jesus and Mary seemed
to be overlooking the incident from the top of a cloud But behind them are a lot of disk
shaped objects these objects could be thought of as clouds but for A painter who paints or
who pays extensive attention to details, such simplistic depiction of clouds doesn't quite
seem right. Yeah, no, that looks absolutely ridiculous. That sounds absolutely ridiculous
when you're looking at this. It looks more like craft that are pushing clouds on the front
end of them. Yeah, it almost looks like it's something that's being brought in. Yeah, see?
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah. That looks like clouds being pushed at the edge of a saucer-shaped
object. or like surrounding it. But you clearly see the saucer object on the inside. And there's
a whole bunch of them behind. Going all the way to the horizon. Yeah. And there's people
standing in a town square. One guy is like, oh. Raking some snow. Isn't that? It looks
like a hoe. And it looks like he's using it on cement, which is weird. No, because they
said that they got snow, right? Oh, right, right. Yes, that's snow. He's cleaning up the snow.
They got snow on a hot summer day or something like that. That's what they said. Weird. Yeah,
what are you doing hoeing that snow, bro? You're a hoe for that snow. This one's called the
Madonna with St. Giovannino. Oh, yeah, I've seen this one before. Yeah, look at the, look
at the, from around the 15th century. On her left shoulder, sorry. Yeah. Depicts Mary, mother
of Jesus, looking down while. In the background, you see a clear picture of what appears to
be a UFO flying above. And zoom in. While a man on the ledge blocks the sun with his hand
and stares at the strange object flying in the sky. What the hell? Dude, that looks like an
NFT. One of those damn, not NFT, but like one of those images, like the 3D or the 4D images
where you can like zoom in and like continue the, what are those called? Yeah, NFT. Oh.
You're talking about like the fractal? Fractal. Yeah. The fractal, like 3D images that people
can like zoom in and just continue the image. Yeah, but we can zoom on that. Zoom, yeah,
zoom in. We could do a, we'll do a full picture and a zoomed in picture of this. Yeah. Because
yeah, look, it's somebody blocking the sun or like holding something up. He's standing with
his hand up to his. Forehead like he's blocking the Sun. Yeah, and he's in the distance and
back out. There is what looks like a UFO something in the sky Something I mean, what would you
be painting in the sky? I'm sure looks saucer shape to me. Yeah, looks like a little mushroom
cap. Yeah, it looks exactly like that Yes, this is from a collection called the Acombaro figures
in 1944 A German shopkeeper, Waldemar Julesrud, claimed to have stumbled upon a mysterious
figurine while on horseback near Acombaro in the city of San Francisco. Guanajuato, Mexico?
I apologize. I'm not laughing at the names. I'm laughing at Dean trying to pronounce the
names. That's all, sorry. Just let everybody know. He said that he found over 30,000 of
them with the help of a farmer. What is distinct about the figurines is that they appear to
depict dinosaurs and humans living together. Additionally, there were also some strange
figurines that many people say resemble flying saucers and even aliens. Here's an example.
Yeah. That does look a lot like what we just saw in the background of that one image.
Yeah. And then you've got the Kumbaya artifacts.
the civilization that inhabited the areas around Cauca River Valley and the western slopes of
the Andes.
But these are a bunch of little gold figurines of what look like. Yes, I wanted to talk about
these dude. They look like planes. Absolutely. This one looks like a propeller plane. That
looks like one of our earliest planes. And then we've got some of them are more like shuttle
or jet shaped. That one on the bottom left. And they're also like clearly stylized to look
like insects or birds. Because those are the depictions of something flying that you know
in your culture. But if you're, imagine, right? Imagine even today in your culture, one of
these uncontacted tribes, in the uncontacted tribes that are in the Amazon. And I think
there's another one on an island somewhere. Yeah, somewhere in the Amazon. In like the
Indian Ocean area. Something like that, yeah. But there's people who live today without knowing
that there are all this civilization around them, right? And they just live their life
as hunter-gatherers. Yeah, like they're completely hunter-gatherers, living uncontacted from us.
Yeah. And they imagine looking up into the sky as one of them, and seeing our aircraft, seeing
our rockets shoot up into the air, satellites flying across the sky. Starlink? Starlink.
Those Starlink trains, what would they think that is? They would, I mean, exactly. And imagine
them trying to make art, and they come up with some kind of religion, or they come up with
some kind of, or maybe they were contacted. Yeah. And they were told about Christianity.
Even just Western society before technology, how would you paint these flying things? Absolutely.
If you go back to like 16th century Europe and you show them stuff flying in the sky that
looks like shuttles and jets and stuff, they're going to paint it as birds and insects too.
Because that's what they know. Yeah, like you don't have context for what these things are,
but these shapes clearly. So some people claim these are like just not real. I don't know
the details of it. Like not real at all? Yeah, like there could be some sort of hoax. Right,
OK. But? But there was one thing I saw. And I think it was the one on the bottom left,
or maybe it was the one on the bottom right. I think it was the one on the bottom right.
They took a 3D image of it, and they blew it up in scale. And they actually tested it out.
And they made a model of it, and they tested it out, and it was actually aerodynamic. Like
it actually flew. Yeah, obviously that's the general shape. Sure, but. I imagine they would
have to do certain things. I guess, yeah, that's true. Curve the wings in a certain way. But
it flew. Yeah. I mean, this one totally looks like a prop plane to me. Yeah, you get that
thing spinning, it's a prop plane. Yeah. That is a World War I prop plane. But even if these
are hoaxes, even if the paintings, I mean, You don't need any one piece of this. It's not
about resting the case on any one piece of evidence. It's about recontextualizing once you can admit
there's a phenomenon and looking back in history and understanding that what, how, how would
humans back in those times describe this phenomenon and they'll use the best terminology they have.
Yeah. They'll describe it in whatever way they can. And if you look at religions and this
is why Diana Pesolka is such a Such a great person. Yeah, like a researcher that I really
admire. Her book, American Cosmic, and then the new one is Encounters. Encounters, yeah.
I'm finishing that right now. It's so good. I need to read that one. And then I just sent
Drew this video with Jesse Michaels that she just did. Yeah, the interview was fantastic.
We'll post a link. Yeah, the interview with Jesse Michael was fantastic. He is a great
interviewer. Yeah, so she is a religious studies professor. She's straight out of academia.
She was never into the UFO topic, but she would study religions from like an agnostic, regardless
of a personal beliefs, if you're an academic religious studies professor, you need to come
at it without believing or disbelieving. You're trying to analyze the phenomena of humans believing
in religious events and studying them and the details of them and what people report. And
she's taken some of these writings from some of the saints, like Francis of Assisi, and
gotten them re-translated outside of being through the church. And what he's describing in his
famous sighting of seeing Jesus coming out of the sky, he doesn't mention Jesus at all. And
what he mentions could be... Like if you read it to a modern person, it sounds like a UFO
sighting. Yeah, that's insane. And same with like Ezekiel's wheel in the Bible. Look at
like Hindu texts, any like pantheistic religion. Yeah, the Vimana. It's rife with gods flying
throughout the sky. In the Vimana. Same like. I mean, it's all over the world you're seeing
this kind of evidence where they talk about this stuff and the mainstream a lot of the
time they just chalk it up as analogies or they were like they were they were portraying the
feeling of the era and like you know, like, but they're they're, they're the ones putting
that on the words. The words aren't themselves saying that what they're talking about what
they're describing is fiction. Right. They're talking about it as fact. They're talking about
it as this is what happened, and it changed this, and this, or whatever, about our society.
And things grew from then. They gained knowledge. There are so many things that happened around
those mythologies. Yeah. I want to talk also about how does modern science talk about a
lot of these topics? Because I find that super interesting as well. Okay. one of these types.
I used to be this type. Like I, in my life, I've bounced back and forth from like believing
all this like new agey stuff to like hardcore atheist science, like all this other stuff's
probably not true and back multiple times. And I think I'm at like what I feels comfortable
to me sort of hybrid position between the two, which is that I grant that there's enough evidence
that a lot of these events exist, or at least there's something to them they're worth being
looked into. And I think in a lot of cases, if you're open-minded, there is the evidence
there. But anyway, so if you're of this other view that like, we haven't been visited and
that none of these things are real. and you're a scientist and you're an astronomer and you're
looking out in the sky and you're thinking about the evolution of the earth and how old the
earth is and the solar system is and the Milky Way galaxy. The universe, all that. So much
time has passed since the formation of the Milky Way to where our solar system, our sun, our
planet existed that other places in the galaxy would have such a head start in terms of developing
life. Right. And developing and destroying and going through a cycle just like we are going
through. Right. So this is the famous Fermi paradox is he's making these observations and
he's saying, you know, I think it's like a famous meeting where a bunch of scientists in like
the lunchroom, they had this conversation. That's what resulted in the Fermi paradox. And so
they're going down this line of reasoning. And then he's like, wait a minute, where are they?
Right. So like, If Earth-like planets exist out there, which we, especially now with James
Webb and everything we know they do, then they've had billions of years ahead of us to develop
technology to evolve, to explore the galaxy. So- Where are they? They should be here. We
should be able to look out and point our telescopes and like see a bunch of activity, because obviously-
as we're advancing in technology, we're developing all these technologies and radio communication
and all that. So obviously someone more advanced than us would at least have that. But like
that has such an assumption in it that we would use radio technology if we were that advanced.
Yeah, like that's assuming that we are gonna be of the same technology we are now, but then,
but with a little bit more advanced propulsion or something like. You know? Right, like if
you think like we're making so much progress in science, we're developing all these new
technologies, we're seeing into the atom, we're seeing subatomic. Right. Like we're starting
to map out mathematically the way the universe works, like, and we're using radio technology.
We're using radio telescopes, like we assume we're making a footprint out there for others
to pick up. So why aren't we seeing that from others? Why aren't they here already? they
should be. But. Are they? And that's like the misnomer of the whole thing cause it relies
on you like taking this, all this UFO evidence for granted. If you're willing to explain away
the entire UFO phenomenon, that's a valid question to pose. Where the fuck is everyone? Yeah.
But once you are at least open-minded that there's something, there's something here, even if
we can't perfectly explain it. then the Fermi paradox isn't a paradox anymore. You're like,
where are they? Well, the answer is they're here. We just don't know what to make of it.
This stuff is mysterious. They're clearly more advanced. They interact totally differently.
It's weird. Combination of time dilations and forgotten memories and time and lights and
people having life changing events. Yeah. People. you know, communicating with beings, having
weird spiritual changes after encountering the phenomenon. Like you get abductions, you get
cattle mutilations, you get like, this phenomenon is deep and big and you can look almost everywhere
and find clear evidence of weirdness, even if it's not clear definition of what actually
is happening. Yeah. So here they are. What do we make of it? Yeah. Well, a lot of it goes
back to the chemistry of the universe, too. We don't even know how the chemistry of like,
because we're flinging, we are moving through the galaxies and we're moving through the universe
at such a rate, too. You would think that we'd eventually come across something. But I guess
everything is moving away from everything else, right? But eventually you would think something
would intersect just naturally, too. I don't know, that's just a totally different tangent,
but. Yeah, I think, I think, if you can, if you're acknowledging that this phenomena is
something, is something non-human, it seems like a big assumption to assume it's only been
happening recently. If it's always been happening, then that has huge implications too. because
this thing is clearly interacting with humans in some way. And if it is, then back to our
conversation from last week about the Younger Dryas and extinction events, all of a sudden
these stories and religions that talk about civilization being wiped out and then these
people coming out of the sky, coming out of the sea and teaching them, telling them to
make arcs beforehand. Like all of a sudden, you know, maybe this is all part of the same
phenomenon too. And it's not just part of a phenomenon. It's actually part of our history.
Yeah. If it's part of our physical, like actual history of like how humans developed from the
last cataclysm, like, I mean, it could go back infinitely longer than that. Like we could
be talking about like. pre-humans, like the humans from before, like this is a theory.
This isn't like my favorite theory, but it's a theory of like humans from before having
like before this ice age, before the calamities of the younger dry ice event and all that kind
of stuff. Them being technologically advanced enough to have gone outside of our solar system
and then come back. Or be. on an arc in space and have come back to give us the technology
to recede. But they also still had that technology and they were clearly different than, they
were clearly a separate class from the people who were on earth at that time that survived.
So they would probably go off and start their own civilization somewhere since they obviously
had the technology. Or not so far away, right? Because there's still a lot of theories of
the moon being an artificial base. The moon being an artificial body. The weird conspiracy
stuff about the objects on the face on Mars. Yeah. Different weird stuff that have been
found out of the rover photos and videos. Right. Dude, there's so many. If you accept that this
is possible, that something is happening. The furthest we go back in recorded history is
only 10,000 years ago. Right. Like, we don't know much more than what happened 10,000 years
ago. Everything before that is considered myth. There is stuff from like that was passed down.
For sure, yeah. But in the form of myth that is of that time before that. And we have no
evidence to confirm or deny this. So everything coming out of it is speculation. Right. So.
knowing that it's our jobs as humans is and obviously the scientists are the ones leading
this charge but like as just civilians and like just Just just sit with these ideas and like
allow yourself to be open-minded enough to take in these ideas and see if it fits with your
yeah for me like building on your point like this idea of this phenomenon overlapping with
like spiritual experience and stuff? Sure.
If you take all these different encounters and you take mythology, like they're talking about
angels, they're talking about demons, they're talking about, you know, serving God and they're
talking about, you know, like corruption and malevolence. Like they're, and that makes sense
to me because if you look at human society, there's no area of human society where you
can like zoom in and not get examples of both like great goodness and great evil. Like people
are capable of both. And if life is greater than human beings on earth and includes entities
of whatever kind across the universe, then like there's gonna be both as well. Like there's
no way it can be all one thing or the other. That's another thing that Diana Pasolka talks
about too, is like the, and I think, Jesse gave her the idea, it was like the power, what was
it, the power of.
Yeah, that statement he made. It was like a forcing event or something like that. A forcing
event. And they also referenced how
evil in humanity and evil in...
nature even, like you think about like the devastating events that nature can have, but also this
super healing and like great, like great events. It's like a turning over for it's like, but
it's a, it's a, what they just, what she describes is like, as like a building block. Like it's
something that like no matter what, and no matter what part of the framework of reality, evil
is a building block, just as much as goodness is a building block of the framework of, of
this thing. It's like creation and destruction. I think if you can see it without judgment,
like it's yin and yang, it's chaos and order. It's the duality of life. Yeah. But within
that, you're going to have this whole complication of you'll have some influences that are more
orderly or more peaceful and some that are more chaotic or malevolent. And you know. That's
where everything from angel encounters to demon encounters to abductions to people, shamans
who go into trances and experience entities to taking ayahuasca or D&T and interacting
with machine elves. And a lot of times the outcome of a lot of those instances where they come
out with some kind of like, some kind of like drastic realization. there's both sides of
it. There's the negative and the positive. They see both sides of it. There also seems to be
something interesting
that people report about the UFO phenomenon, people who are really immersed in all the case
studies and stuff, is that there seems to be a difference of perspective and whether or
not people can see it in the first place. Right. So there's some events. Oh, there was one I
brought. Let me add it to my computer real quick. It's this sighting where an orb flies into
a house with the husband and wife. Yeah. And it just moves from room to room and down the
hall. And it heals their dog. Oh, it heals their dog? Yes. This one's crazy. What was their
dog diagnosed with? It was paralyzed. That's the wrong one. Ha!
That headline. Dude, it's a weird headline. This is basically the same thing. Small UFO
that flew into the house and cured a paralyzed dog. So whether or not you think this is real,
this is a real example of human nature. Hang on. Where are we at time-wise? Can you go to
the other? This was published in 2012. No, no, no. Where are we at? Anomalien.com. No, no,
no. What? Where are we at in time? Oh, time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, we're over. Yeah, I was
going to say. I think this is something we should come back to. Because I got to take a piss.
OK. We'll be back, people. Taka, aliens, and curing paralyzed dogs. Enjoy this beat, which
is called Puppies and Chocolate. Oh my god, that's perfect.
you
Yeah, that actually is named Puppies and Chocolate. Me and Carlo, we made that beat, he was like,
what should we call it? I'm like, I don't know, it's just so nice, it feels good. Like, puppies
and chocolate, just feels good. And you were just like... So that's why we named it Puppies
and Chocolate. Yeah, it just so happens it coincided with where we're going next. You know what?
So instead of puppies and chocolate, the sequel will have to be puppies and aliens. Puppies
and UFOs. All right. So we're about to get into this story. So like the source was the guy
this happened to. He wrote a book about it. But this is a story written about the book
and about the experience kind of summarized from AnomAlien.com. And I'll leave the link.
So one of the authors of this book is a lawyer named Ray Hernandez. And the story happened
directly to him and his family in his home. At that time, his family had a dog named Nanna,
a Jack Russell terrier. In 2012, Nanna was already 15 years old and was rapidly developing arthritis
in her extremities.
At first her gait became weak and then it became increasingly difficult for her to walk. Then
problems with her kidneys and her heart began. Naina was treated but it only got worse. On
March 3rd, 2012, Naina was unable to move her paws and now could only lie down, raise her
head and bark. Her owners called the vet but they only suggested it come to terms and humanely
euthanized the sick pet. Euthanasia was scheduled for the next day. Ray Hernandez's wife, Dulce
Hernandez, was a devout Catholic, took this very hard, and began to pray for Nanna. In
the morning around six o'clock, Nanna began to bark relentlessly. Dulce decided that maybe
she wanted to go to the toilet and took the dog in her arms, and then began to go down
to the first floor of the living room so that she could then go out into the courtyard where
Nanna would relieve herself. And there in the living room, Dolce saw a luminous silver object
about a meter in diameter, which was shaped like an inverted horseshoe. So like, that's
a weird way to describe it, but like the letter U, but upside down. This object hovered above
the floor. For some reason, the devout Dolce mistook it for an angel. When my wife saw this
object, she immediately knelt down and began to pray. She was still holding her dog in her
arms and asked this angel that if she was truly an angel, then let him make sure that her dog,
Nana, did not suffer from this illness. A few minutes later, Dolce began calling her husband
and asking him to come downstairs. Ray did not wanna go out of bed, and she herself went upstairs
and pulled him out of bed. He asked her what happened, but she just said, you will see for
yourself, you will see. I followed my wife downstairs. She stopped next to Naina, who was lying on
the floor, still completely paralyzed on her back. Then my wife and dog disappeared right
before my eyes. Almost immediately after that, I entered a kind of hypnotic trance. It was
as if you were in a state of awakening from a dream, half conscious, half in a dream world.
According to Ray, while in this altered state of consciousness, he did not even think about
what had just happened to his wife. He was completely stunned and looked at this strange object in
his living room. But if Dolce described this object as an inverted letter U, then Ray saw
in front of him a glowing multicolored translucent object of a rectangular shape. Only its dimensions
were still the same about a meter in diameter. The object hovered at the height of about 120
centimeters above the living room floor. Ray called this object the plasma energy creature.
Then he developed a kind of tunnel vision. thanks to which he could only see the space that was
about a meter around the object. The rest of the living room was hidden from view. He couldn't
understand what was happening and didn't even think about his wife and dog, who had just
disappeared into thin air right before his eyes. Automatically, he went up to the bedroom on
the second floor, went to bed and quickly fell asleep. According to Ray, this plasma energy
being, then completely controlled his consciousness. I immediately fell asleep and I don't remember
having any conscious thoughts during those 45 minutes. After I woke up from the semi-conscious
hypnotic trance, I ran downstairs, entering the living room, Ray saw his wife and dog Naina
materialize in the same place where they had disappeared 45 minutes earlier. I don't think
he actually means he saw them materialize, I think he went downstairs and saw them thereafter
because he went upstairs and slept for another 45 minutes. Right. But they said materialize.
Yeah, that's a weird choice of words. If you hear him describe it in other things He doesn't
say it that way Anyway began dancing around the room So yeah Dolce began dancing around
the room and playing with the fully healed Nena who was jumping and hopping back and forth
as if She was a puppy again at the same time Dolce. Joyfully joyfully shouted an angel cured
her My reaction to it was like an atomic bomb exploded in my head My reality was completely
shattered. I just couldn't cope with what had just happened. About a week later, we took
Naina to our vet and he asked what was wrong with her. We were too embarrassed to tell him
what really happened and instead told him we changed her diet. He couldn't believe us because
what happened was unbelievable. We asked him if we should continue giving her previously
prescribed arthritis pills and diuretics and he said no, because she's very healthy now.
We immediately stopped giving her any medications and she lived for about another year, spending
these 11 months in the rhythm of the life of a young dog. And then in the last two weeks
of her life, she quickly sank to such a level that we finally had to euthanize her at Phil's
clinic. It was at that time that we finally told Phil what really happened. Phil looked
at me and my wife with a very strange look and completely ignored our statement about why
Naina was actually cured. We realized how crazy he thought we were, and changed the subject.
He then continued his conversation as if nothing had happened. This is exactly how almost all
of our friends reacted when we told them about our UFO experience. According to Ray Hernandez,
his wife does not remember anything about what happened to her in those 45 minutes when she
disappeared and was passed out. It was a classic episode of missing time among abducted UFOs.
She didn't remember leaving the living room at all. She also firmly convinced that she
saw an object out of a completely different shape than the one her husband saw. According
to Dolce, it was as if there was no 45 minutes missing for her. She didn't feel any gap in
the time she saw Ray down in the living room and the time she ran around the living room
with the cured dog. According to ufologist Preston Dennett, the case of the dog... Nana is only
the fourth case known in ufology of UFOs carrying animals. Other cases involved an injured rooster
that was healed by strange rays of light, and two dogs that became much more energetic and
lively after the sighting of a UFO. Interesting, there's also an even more unique case where
extraterrestrial beings were concerned about the state of plants. In particular, ufologist
Diana Tessman reported an incident in which a forestry worker came Face-to-face with an
alien who gave him advice on how to keep the forest trees healthy Anyway, that's not into
the article What I found super interesting about that and why Diana Pesolko mentions it She
mentions the idea that like people They experience things differently, right? Like so like even
though a marriage right even within a marriage They have two different mindsets and one season
as an angel in a totally different shape and someone else sees it as something else, like
a UFO or anomalous object. But yeah, that definitely tells you unless they're completely fabricating
something happened to their dog Yeah, I mean even the like it did sound like from at least
this you know, I don't know what the original report said but It sounded like the thing you
went to like a different vet or no. No, it's the same vet. Yeah, so originally They took
them to the vet after the dog was healed and it was the vet they had been seeing. Yeah,
that's why I was wondering. That was confused about why the dog was healed. They just said
they changed the diet. And then later on after the dog actually died, they took it to that
same vet and that's when they finally told the vet what happened. Okay. But. And the vet was
like, I'll just not even acknowledge that. Yeah, just pretend like it was the diet. He was like,
OK, crazy version. Just diet is fine. He might have believed it a little more if they had
told him that originally. Maybe, maybe. But some people just are not in a mindset where
they're even open to something like that. That is true. as a story of something that happens
in the world, you know? Which is why, like, Ray describes this like, when he sees the dog
the next morning, it's just a nuclear bomb went off in his head, you know? Like, his whole
world had shifted, especially experiencing what he had just experienced. Right. So whether
or not you believe this, like, put yourself in the mindset of that story. Yeah. And you
might start to understand what it's like for some of these. observers and witnesses and
people who are experiencers. Yeah, and even to parallel that with like a lot of like Jacques
Follet's work and like how he talks about like. The parallels between modern and historical,
like UFO scenarios and how he kind of talks about like the like there's like even like.
back in ancient times when they talked about like fairies and right like goblins or whatever
like demons and angels and all these different things like that was just the product of the
time. So like, you know, deduce like, whatever might be going on in your life at the time
that you're really focused on might be a central aspect of how you experience this phenomena.
And it might be something that It's just on such a level that you can't comprehend it.
That's why a lot of these abductees talk about like time dilating and like um, just like Different
types of beings like there's like tall blondes and there's yeah the grays and then there's
you know The tall blondes there's the small grays and tall grays, right? There's the reptilians
the mantids The ones that look like praying mantises There's a bunch of other weird ones.
There's some that look like UFO or like a Bigfoot Hairy bigger creatures and then there's a like
random one-offs of like all sorts of crazy stuff and then there's humans like there's like Yeah,
there's some that are just they just look human. Yeah, not even weird and You know like that
makes sense to me like that's part of like It would be that way, you know If human life,
biology and human life didn't start on this planet, then as...
as a freaking Fermi had pointed out, then it's gonna be so much older than us. That's why
I brought up the Fermi paradox because once you realize it's not a paradox and they probably
are here, if that is in fact what's going on with the phenomenon, then you automatically,
it only makes sense that it's ancient. It only makes sense that it would have been here before
us. It only makes sense that like, maybe they're far beyond electromagnetic communication and
so we don't see radio waves out there. And maybe they have control over consciousness and they
actually understand like the laws of physics and what you can and can't do. What looks like
magic and weird and high strangeness to us is technology for them. Or even just part of their,
yeah, just. And that's... The anatomy in a sense. Right. And that's if it's even partly the explanation
of creatures who are biological. Like materialists. Who came from planets on other... Materialistic
view of it all, instead of the spiritual view of it all. But given enough time, I don't see
how the materialist view doesn't become the spiritual view because your technology will
become so advanced that it's going to be magic. Absolutely, yeah. It'll definitely be magic.
I mean, there's... Stopping time and communicating telepathically. We already are close to coming
up with Neuralink and the first technological telepathic communication. Given billions of
years of evolution, it's really not that out there that could just be a sense for other
biological creatures. Yeah. Even if we don't see the organs for that in ourselves, that's
no proof that it's not. Well, and you also got to think about like if you accept the like
multiverse or multidimensional aspect of the universe too and like how the like if you were
to imagine like we are a 3D being in a four dimensional world, right? Well, we're a 4D
being. We're a 4D being. Because we exist in time too. So But even still, we are. But that's
given that time is an actual dimension. But there's all these theories on multiple dimensions.
And they can have theories on multiple dimensions. Well, multiple dimensions are multiverse. Or
if time travel is actually possible, and it's not a multiverse, maybe it's like even if it's
the back to the future version of time travel, where going back and forth in time actually
changes the one true. timeline and you can alter your historic events. Yeah. Like. Like, that's
interesting. That's where the phenomenon like intersects with things like the Mandela effect.
Yeah. Which would be fun to do an episode on. Yeah. Well, I was thinking too, like with the,
if it being like, if you're talking about like the UFO specifically, and you think that way
about the multiverse and stuff, and like different dimensional beings existing. in a different
dimension, like in a higher dimension, like what that might look like for them to intersect
with our dimension in our reality. So like, I thought that like UFOs and these spiritual
events and like these things that happen are like, just like an one of us like dissecting
an animal, you know, in the two dimensional world, like an ant or like a thing, like whatever
it might be, like putting them under a microscope and like changing the altering the course of
that. Yeah. That organism. And like if you're in a different dimension and actually perceiving
things like you might have access to all this different information. Even if you're on a
different dimension, even if you just have like higher understanding of like physics, you can
like predict future and past more accurately too. So you'll have more information in that
case too. So you can actually affect world events just by having enough knowledge, you know,
like, but
if. UFO phenomenon really points to a real thing and if You go down the paths of like intersecting
fields like paranormal research Shamanism religion DMT and like Psychedelic studies There does
seem to be something physical but also maybe something call it spiritual, but maybe it's
energetic, if you want to use like materialist science terms. We don't know what kind of like
energy entities could exist. And they could be made out of what we call, you know, scientists
called dark matter, right? Stuff that we can't really directly observe. But still have an
effect on life. Right. Yeah. But it also could be multiverses, different dimensions. So there's
just so many possibilities. This topic is huge, man. It's huge, yeah. We're going to go in
a lot of different directions and tie a lot of things in. And I mean, yeah. But for those
of you who are skeptical on this topic and aren't believers, I think you don't have to be a believer
in anything specific. But hopefully, believers that there's something happening. Open-minded.
Open-minded. That there could be something happening at the very least. Then if you're not there
yet, then I would check out, obviously, all the modern stuff like David Fravor and Ryan
Graves. Grush. David Grush and all of his original stuff is a little like, you can listen to his
congressional testimony in his original interviews. And he seems almost a little dodgy.
Jesse Michaels and Rogan and Ross Ulbricht has been talking about him. Check some of that
stuff out, because
it's at least enough to know something's happening. Yeah, I mean, we're talking about congressional
hearings and they're talking about oversight committees and they're trying to get transparency
within the government when it comes to these UAP disclosures. There appears to be factions
within the government and groups of them that actually do want this out and other groups
that want it to stay completely top secret and hidden. Yeah, it's in jeopardy of being vetoed
by the House. representatives, right? That bill for your transparency or whatever. To get it
added to the NDAA. Yeah. So yeah, all this stuff is fascinating topics. I want to talk about
crop circles too. Yeah. Like there's some cool stuff. I've never dove super deep. I've seen
like a couple documentaries here and there and I have to be like, huh. Yeah. I don't know
how serious to take it, but that's interesting. But I want to talk about it a little bit. I
do want to talk about eventually Eric Weinstein's Oh, yeah. Recent stuff that he's talked about
with UFOs and stuff, and he's kind of gotten into it. Yeah, it was that conversation. It
was Jesse Michaels that did that, right? Got him to talk with Hal Puthoff about the UFO
topic. And it really changed his view a bit. It's a fascinating. And he has interesting
points. He does, yeah. Hal Puthoff, yeah. No, Eric. Oh, no, Eric. Now that he's come around
a little bit, he's finally been like, He'll talk about like, he like, huh, it like, if
you look back in the history of academia and like the people who were top performers in
schools, the people we were in class with in my generation, like there is an odd amount
of them that went into like private, private science and never published. And like a lot
of them have ended up at some of these, what are like, you know, kind of black budget. contractors
who don't really talk about what they do in general. Yeah, it's like the aerospace companies
and stuff, a lot of these like Lockheed Martin and Arrow. And Jesse Michael's in his, he actually
has a video dedicated to that, to Eric Weinstein's like breakdown of that and like that whole
idea of tracking the geniuses and the brain drain out of academia into the private black
groups. Yeah, he's definitely something to look out for in the coming. I mean, it's sensible
because look at the Manhattan Project, look at the Cold War. Like, you're going to, you
know, if these types of things and possibilities, if there's life out there, these craft out
there, if there's this ability to possibly learn a whole new technology and get the upper hand
against your, you know, political rivals. You know, who was it? Ross Coulthart. Yeah, I mean,
Ross Coulthart talked about how and also Eric Weinstein mentioned how like They bring in
a lot of these really smart people, but a lot of them are only of certain disciplines. Or
they only have a certain focus. And they're only compartmentalized. A lot of the stuff's
probably compartmentalized. You're talking about the S4 stuff. Yeah. And he talks about how
like, or Ross Coulthard talks about how like, um. like a lot of this, this modern science
and studies, a lot of this modern push through, um, through Congress is by a lot of these companies
that are like GE and like a lot of these big time companies in the United States are pushing
for this to go through the Congress. they can have access to this technology. And how he
talks about how like, he doesn't have high hopes that what is gonna happen through Congress
is going to actually lead to the American public being disclosed on a lot of this stuff. But
what it will do- If it could open up the information to competing business interests to study the
technology. Imagine competing business interests is getting a hold of this technology and going
in different ways with a lot of this technology. And then you have- the development of a lot
of these technologies that will absolutely change the face of energy or whatever it might be
in the country. So that's something to think about though. I know it's frustrating, but
you gotta think this is the way they operate. I know, it's just like, at what point, like
I get keeping nuclear technology secret. Like if every single person knew how to build one
easily. like it could end the world. But I know everything has different applications, but
that's just the deal with technology. Everything's a two-edged sword. It's a whole thing, like
guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Yes, you can use something for destructive purposes, but you can also use it to help mankind into
a new age of plenty. Absolutely. I think we've run this well dry of fossil fuels and burning
this stuff. It's obvious that as a culture, as a human culture on this planet, as far as
the first and second world countries, we're like. we're looking to get out of this fossil
fuel stuff. And it's a trend going on. I mean, yeah. And if it's, and if this is a slow disclosure.
I think for some of the companies, it's about like slowing, tightening the production, you
know, to boost the price of fossil fuels for the people who have it. So that's why a lot
of the oil companies aren't totally off board with the green energy stuff, as long as it's
restricting the supply and not killing it. Then you're actually like raising prices. per gallon.
Until the day that. But I mean, if we, I mean, a lot of these UFO technologies, if we're talking
about things that can traverse realities and whether it's physical or dimensional space,
that's got to have applications that could help people keep lights on in their house for cheaper,
allow people to. climb out of poverty, allow countries to develop industrially that haven't
been able to. It would change the nature of the world. If it was out there and the world
was sufficiently energy independent, then a lot of people's control over the economy can
start to collapse. I think there's interests that don't want that. I think that's part of
keeping this black. I think there's a lot of vested interest in a lot of these aspects of
this. you know, story, I guess you would call it, but UFOs. I don't really buy the mass panic
excuse. No, absolutely not. I just, you know, UFO culture is like science, sci-fi, like not
a one person hasn't thought of the idea of UFOs. Yeah. and wondered what it would be like. Would
it terribly shock most people if that was part of a reality? I think it would shock a lot
of people, but I think at the same time people are resilient. Yeah, the difference between
being, I guess, shocked isn't the right word. Would it end civilization's ability to move
forward? Civilization, to continue to function. Would that revelation shatter our civilization?
I don't think so. I don't think so. I think it has the potential to have more harm when...
Everybody's just in the dark about it. Yeah, it's just like, what gives these black budget
people, these government goons, the right to be the only ones who get to decide the fate
of humanity in this endeavor? Like, you know, they're not elected. At some point, maybe in
the distant past, someone who was elected created their organizations. But since then, they've
kept it off the books, out of scrutiny, and on a need-to-know basis. And I just. oversight.
You can't trust someone with that kind of power of like the knowledge of the nature of the
universe and the possibilities of technology. Like it's not right. We all should be involved
in the reality of that. That needs to be opened up. That's a human thing. That's not a, that's
something that can absolutely change the complete face of the planet. But I think it is changing.
Like I think what some people are realizing is that. Regardless of whether the government
opens up, it's possible to study UFOs in the private sector as civilians in an open way.
Like not everything can be controlled. Like we have the internet, we have global communication
technology, we have decentralization, and once something comes out, it can't. be put back
in the bottle. So. Yep. Exactly. Even though maybe they do have access to information and
physical material, like at some point, something's going to slip. At some point, someone is going
to be able to prove something. Yep. So. Yep. Absolutely. I think we have enough that you
could, for me, it's considered proof that something's happening. It's not necessarily. Something
is happening. That's absolutely in. It's just what and when are we going to find out? That
excites me and dishes me off at the same time. This topic is fascinating and we're going to
continue to go down these paths. Appreciate you all hanging out. Heck of a night. The topic's
great, man. I know, this topic's great. We're going to continue this. I actually haven't
read Mesh Jock Velay, and I actually ordered some of his books that are coming in. So I'm
excited to go directly into it for myself. Yeah, maybe we do a book report on one of these,
like two. OK. Just like, if we can, I don't know how the rights work. I think it would
be a good idea. We don't necessarily have to read giant excerpts, but we can do little paragraphs,
summarize, talk about it. So yeah, if you guys want to continue. listening, find us on YouTube,
Rumble, check out our socials on Facebook and TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, X, and check our
website dualitycheck.net, send us an email, get involved in the conversation, host at dualitycheck.net.
We'll be here, see y'all next time. Stay curious.
Thanks for watching!